Tesa experience?

GleepGlop said:


Does anyone have experience stacking reta + tesa? I've heard mixed results due to the opposing glucose effects. Some people claim the stack works, while others say the tesa blunts the effects of the reta.

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Others here likely have more experience than me but I’ll come out of hiding and admit I’m doing both (on my 6th week of 6mg Reta + now going into my 2nd week of 1mg Tesa) and have had no issues.

I’ll be getting some more baseline bloodwork done soon (mostly for check test, tsh, and igf1 trend), but supposedly the thing to monitor would be your fasting glucose and HbA1c levels across multiple readings as a trend as indicators that the two combined may be an issue.

Anecdotally, I started doing both myself out of a desire to more quickly manage my visceral fat and to help avoid loss of muscle from reta alone.

I’ve been measuring and monitoring my waistline, knowing that Tesa water retention will stall and hide reta weight loss occasionally and I’ve already reduced by an inch in the week after starting Tesa (caveat here is it could have also been reta momentum as I’ve lost close to 2-3” of waistline overall including this most recent loss).

GleepGlop said:


Asking because I have high visceral fat levels. In fact, I was recently diagnosed with fatty liver. All the more reason I'd love to target the visceral fat quickly and effectively. I know reta does well with visceral fat, but curious if tesa could amplify.

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In that case assuming you don’t have other complications like diabetes, etc. I would think that any cons for combining both are outweighed by the benefits; but if you have reservations you can’t go wrong with just sticking with Reta. Reta affects both sub-q and visceral fat, while Tesa primarily affects visceral fat.
 
GleepGlop said:


Does anyone have experience stacking reta + tesa? I've heard mixed results due to the opposing glucose effects. Some people claim the stack works, while others say the tesa blunts the effects of the reta.

Asking because I have high visceral fat levels. In fact, I was recently diagnosed with fatty liver. All the more reason I'd love to target the visceral fat quickly and effectively. I know reta does well with visceral fat, but curious if tesa could amplify.

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Yes, been stacking Reta and Tesa since end of January.

53/54 yr old male.

Very positive experience. Down ~30lbs, 219 to 186/192 (fluctuating depending on exercise load).

Despite weight loss, VO2 max is up from 46 to 52. Significant performance improvement in endurance MTB.

Weights have remained steady throughout.

BP 265-275 working weight (5x5)

DL 395-415 (3x5)

Don’t squat due to volume of MTB.

Waist 36ish to 32-33 inches

Visible/deep 4 pack, still have a hoagie sized pocket of fat around the belly button, but it is slowly receding. Love handles significantly shrunken.

Using a bio-impedance scale, visceral fat is down 40%. Have not used a Dexa.

Reta 4mg/wk, split dose 2mg 2x/wk.

Tesa/ipa blend 5/2 schedule. 2mg Tesa/.3mg Ipa.

Also on ~70mg test/week (.18ml - .2ml every other day), enclomiphene, hcg. Have hypogonadism and family history of hypogonadism. I only want a high natural level.



Supps - creatine, fish oils, coq10, magnesium glycinate and some other sports supplements.

Regularly drink LMNT to ensure I get my electrolytes, helps prevent leg cramps in the middle of the night given my calorie deficit and workload.

Only issues I experience are sleep quality if I inject Reta at night.
 
Cannonball72 said:


Yes, been stacking Reta and Tesa since end of January.

53/54 yr old male.

Very positive experience. Down ~30lbs, 219 to 186/192 (fluctuating depending on exercise load).

Despite weight loss, VO2 max is up from 46 to 52. Significant performance improvement in endurance MTB.

Weights have remained steady throughout.

BP 265-275 working weight (5x5)

DL 395-415 (3x5)

Don’t squat due to volume of MTB.

Waist 36ish to 32-33 inches

Visible/deep 4 pack, still have a hoagie sized pocket of fat around the belly button, but it is slowly receding. Love handles significantly shrunken.

Using a bio-impedance scale, visceral fat is down 40%. Have not used a Dexa.

Reta 4mg/wk, split dose 2mg 2x/wk.

Tesa/ipa blend 5/2 schedule. 2mg Tesa/.3mg Ipa.

Also on ~70mg test/week (.18ml - .2ml every other day), enclomiphene, hcg. Have hypogonadism and family history of hypogonadism. I only want a high natural level.



Supps - creatine, fish oils, coq10, magnesium glycinate and some other sports supplements.

Regularly drink LMNT to ensure I get my electrolytes, helps prevent leg cramps in the middle of the night given my calorie deficit and workload.

Only issues I experience are sleep quality if I inject Reta at night.

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Thanks for sharing all the details, the is great information. I've been hesitant to add tesa to my stack because I've read others say it stalled their weight loss. After reading your experience I think I'll get some.
 
GleepGlop said:


Thanks for sharing all the details, the is great information. I've been hesitant to add tesa to my stack because I've read others say it stalled their weight loss. After reading your experience I think I'll get some.

Click to expand...
Start low on the Tesa and titrate up, there may be som initial water retention but it goes away.

IMO Reta does the heavy lifting on the weight loss, the Tesa is helping with post workout/exercise recovery, strength maintenance while in deficit.

I can’t explain how I can workout/exercise like I do in this kind of deficit without the Tesa and test-c.

The workload I do would probably crash my natural test if I didn’t already have an issue.
 
I tried a cycle of Tesa and my weight loss stalled. I didn't really experience any significant effects compared to when I used CJC-1295/Ipa. I was lifting the heaviest I ever had in the gym while on CJC-1295/Ipa. I am on Ipa only for now, and my weight is finally trending down again--we shall see if that continues and if Tesa was really the cause. Once I get some more CJC-1295 to stack with Ipa, hopefully my gym performance will improve again. My guess is maybe Tesa was increasing insulin resistance even though I'm on Reta. I wish I had thought to check my morning levels while I was on Tesa.
 
Cannonball72 said:


Start low on the Tesa and titrate up, there may be som initial water retention but it goes away.

IMO Reta does the heavy lifting on the weight loss, the Tesa is helping with post workout/exercise recovery, strength maintenance while in deficit.

I can’t explain how I can workout/exercise like I do in this kind of deficit without the Tesa and test-c.

The workload I do would probably crash my natural test if I didn’t already have an issue.

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Good to know. How long does the water retention typically last on average? I'm sure it varies from person to person, but curious what your experience was.

Do you feel like the tesa helped you protect muscle mass while on reta? I think that's my main concern. I workout, eat healthy, and try to get in as much protein as possible. It's really hard to eat enough some days though. I have to set reminders on my phone just to eat.
 
muhvugga said:


Others here likely have more experience than me but I’ll come out of hiding and admit I’m doing both (on my 6th week of 6mg Reta + now going into my 2nd week of 1mg Tesa) and have had no issues.

I’ll be getting some more baseline bloodwork done soon (mostly for check test, tsh, and igf1 trend), but supposedly the thing to monitor would be your fasting glucose and HbA1c levels across multiple readings as a trend as indicators that the two combined may be an issue.

Anecdotally, I started doing both myself out of a desire to more quickly manage my visceral fat and to help avoid loss of muscle from reta alone.

I’ve been measuring and monitoring my waistline, knowing that Tesa water retention will stall and hide reta weight loss occasionally and I’ve already reduced by an inch in the week after starting Tesa (caveat here is it could have also been reta momentum as I’ve lost close to 2-3” of waistline overall including this most recent loss).

In that case assuming you don’t have other complications like diabetes, etc. I would think that any cons for combining both are outweighed by the benefits; but if you have reservations you can’t go wrong with just sticking with Reta. Reta affects both sub-q and visceral fat, while Tesa primarily affects visceral fat.

Click to expand...
What was your starting dose with tesa? 0.5? How was it when you started? Side effects?
 
ChicagoFit said:


@ThatNextGril coffee is life lol. Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night to pee, I'll pin myself. My current frustration is looking at the scale over-and-over again in disbelief that my weight doesn't budge (8mg Reta/wk & 2mg tesa/day). Its only been three weeks, but so damn frustrating.

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I've been on tesa and Ipa for 34 days now and also been on reta for a while. I'm with you I got frustrated a few times during my weekly weigh ins but I definitely noticed and felt a change in waist reduction. I also keep track of my hypertrophy training and notice my numbers slowly increasing again. I started at 1mg tesa and 200mcg ipa both daily. 4 days ago I increased tesa to 1.2mg and Ipa to 250mcg. Biggest benefit has def been the amount of deep sleep I've been getting. Recently woke up in tears because of how realistic these dreams be for me now 😭.

For me personally, tesa/ipa has indirectly impacted muscle gain/preservation due to the better sleep quality. However, I would be cautious to say it has helped with direct muscle growth. Slowly titrating up to see if this could eventually be the case at least for me.
 
ronin365 said:


I tried a cycle of Tesa and my weight loss stalled. I didn't really experience any significant effects compared to when I used CJC-1295/Ipa. I was lifting the heaviest I ever had in the gym while on CJC-1295/Ipa. I am on Ipa only for now, and my weight is finally trending down again--we shall see if that continues and if Tesa was really the cause. Once I get some more CJC-1295 to stack with Ipa, hopefully my gym performance will improve again. My guess is maybe Tesa was increasing insulin resistance even though I'm on Reta. I wish I had thought to check my morning levels while I was on Tesa.

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I had a similar experience on CJC/Ipa. I stalled after maintaining a 1.5-2lb/wk weight loss. I switched to HGH and continued to stall. I upped my reta dose from 3mg/wk to 4mg/wk and it seems I am going down again.

With that said, I am pretty sure my BF% continued to drop during that time. I also think that the GH secretagogues and HGH cause water retention which may mask actual weight loss.

Some folks also seem to think that reta is actually helping with preventing insulin resistance due to elevated IGF-1 levels
 
I was on Tesamorelin and CJC1295-noDAC/Ipamorelin for 2 months on top of retatrutide.

I don't know if they helped me but I do think that when I breathe in and "suck" my belly inward, it looks more concave. lol
 
GleepGlop said:


Good to know. How long does the water retention typically last on average? I'm sure it varies from person to person, but curious what your experience was.

Do you feel like the tesa helped you protect muscle mass while on reta? I think that's my main concern. I workout, eat healthy, and try to get in as much protein as possible. It's really hard to eat enough some days though. I have to set reminders on my phone just to eat.

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Can’t say it was Tesa directly, but it did not hurt. Water retention passed pretty quickly, if I remember correctly.
 
DragonOfTheSea said:


Correct that most data suggests cycling a certain number of days/week isn't necessary, so daily is ok, however that Tesa should be done on protocol cycles (such as a defined number of weeks on, then weeks off). This data is certainly much more varied, and ultimately should be determined by test data rather than "feelz" or guestimation. IGF-1 levels and scores should ultimately determine dosage amount and duration. Everyone starts at different levels and will respond differently.

As for refrigeration, yes it's common to be suggested that reconstituted Tesa shouldn't be refrigerated, this is due to a common "gelling" that many people experience of the reconstituted solution. So, storing in a cool, dark place is often recommended, but I imagine this also significantly contributes to the accelerated degradation of the compound, which is why it is often suggested to administer the reconstituted compound within roughly 2 weeks.

That all being said, my thoughts about the gelling problem are either or both: Poor quality peptide, and/or poor quality BAC water. From most anecdotal accounts, reconstituting quality Tesa with Hospira BAC results in perfectly refrigeration-friendly solution. I know that mine has been in the fridge for 2 weeks and is still perfectly fluid, and I plan to use this prepared batch for the 40 days the dosage will last me (20mg Tesa/10mg Ipa dosing .5/.25 daily = 40 doses).

But, to each their own there..

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Peptide crafters posted results of a test they did with tesa, they tested baseline purity and content, then 30-60-90 days. 30 & 60 showed almost no decline in purity and content, 90 days showed a 1% decline in purity and .9 mg content loss. Room temp sample went down much quicker, losing about 1% monthly the first 2 months and 5% overall. But really I dont see anyone keeping a bottle for 90 days in any case, even 20mg would be gone in 40 days at .5mg daily.
 
Gr33dyOctopus said:


Im, about to finish my 3rd week of Tesa/Ipa mix, and feeling alright about it.

The stinging from the shots has been less and less as I go along.

Pinning in the mornong and along with some of the others here i also have some issues with not drinking coffee in the mornings... an hour or two after I pin usually go for a strong coffee with two small thimbles of vanilla or hazelnut creamer. Its hard not to do when I've been doing it for so long.

Plan to keep pinning Tesa till my Lobsta hgh group buy gets here, having a huge round of bloodwork done and then will probably switch to the hgh unless someone talks me out of it. I dont mind the Tesa, but from all I've seen here the real hgh would be more effective with likely better results.

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@Gr33dyOctopus i've stalked your posts and you live on the wild-side. clearly you know that the add-ons to the coffee are trouble. I am getting use to waking up in the middle of the night to pee and pin. Maybe that could work for you?

I don't think anyone is going to talk you out of HGH, but there is a difference between Tesamorelin with the body producing its own growth hormone (endogenous --from the inside) vs the body receiving actual growth hormone (exogenous --from the outside).

As a rule of thumb for all hormones, an exogenous hormone is "more powerful" but also "shuts down" the body's production of the same naturally occurring hormone because the exogenous hormone is present and the body doesn't need to work to get it. Frequently, once the exogenous hormone is discontinued, the natural ability of the body to start producing the same hormone naturally doesn't bounce back to baseline. With Tesamorelin, the mechanism of producing the natural hormone is never shut down, in fact, like a muscle it might become exercised.
 
GleepGlop said:


What was your starting dose with tesa? 0.5? How was it when you started? Side effects?

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I started at 1mg, pinning 7 days a week in the morning. I’m now switching pinning to the evening just to see how if it affects sleep (too early to tell).

Edit: Side effects… just slight sting after pinning. Got the absolute best sleep for first 1-2 days when starting, but haven’t seen it occur since then (hence now trying to pin at night to re-create that). Feeling less fatigued in the mornings and more recently better recovery from workout (all expected with slightly higher testosterone though). No other noticeable sides.

My plan is to stick with 1mg for at least a month, or at least until I do the responsible thing and get some baseline bloodwork done. I also don’t feel my use or need matches 1:1 with the trial conditions (they weren’t also on reta, among other details) and I want to observe how I do with workouts more. So far, so good - but there’s just not enough time for me to say it’s all due to Tesa vs me just being consistent and being able to gradually increase my weight during sets.

I do also have Ipa on standby in the freezer but I don’t want to add too much at once - again also waiting until I get off my ass to get baseline done.
 
ChicagoFit said:


@Gr33dyOctopus i've stalked your posts and you live on the wild-side. clearly you know that the add-ons to the coffee are trouble. I am getting use to waking up in the middle of the night to pee and pin. Maybe that could work for you?

I don't think anyone is going to talk you out of HGH, but there is a difference between Tesamorelin with the body producing its own growth hormone (endogenous --from the inside) vs the body receiving actual growth hormone (exogenous --from the outside).

As a rule of thumb for all hormones, an exogenous hormone is "more powerful" but also "shuts down" the body's production of the same naturally occurring hormone because the exogenous hormone is present and the body doesn't need to work to get it. Frequently, once the exogenous hormone is discontinued, the natural ability of the body to start producing the same hormone naturally doesn't bounce back to baseline. With Tesamorelin, the mechanism of producing the natural hormone is never shut down, in fact, like a muscle it might become exercised.

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Yes that could absolutely work for me! I can stick myself anytime midnight or 1am isnt a bad idea! Ty!

And oh my Jesus, picking vegetables that I buy on sale at Safeway.. i didn't know that after using hgh my levels possibly won't go back to baseline??? No matter what I learn it never seems to be enough, I had thought that was a given 🤪

Im just not used to hormones like hgh and test, rapidly realizing they are whole different animals ", in fact, like a muscle it might become exercised." Didn't know that either!! Following you now!!!!

Didnt know that either! Then quite possibly ill just stick with Tesa, price isnt really an issue but long term health certainly is. Again, ty so much for that food for thought and valuable information, thats why i stay on this board, that and to annoy tf out of Zippity and make him wonder why he ever let me come back!!! 😅🤣😂🤣😅

Heres one of my favorite memes as a token of appreciation! 🤗🤗🤗🤗
 
I have tossed the idea around of switching from Tesa to GH. But every-time I tried to justify it, I come back to the same conclusion, Tesa is safer and easier. Cost isn’t that big if a difference for me…
 
ChicagoFit said:


@Gr33dyOctopus i've stalked your posts and you live on the wild-side. clearly you know that the add-ons to the coffee are trouble. I am getting use to waking up in the middle of the night to pee and pin. Maybe that could work for you?

I don't think anyone is going to talk you out of HGH, but there is a difference between Tesamorelin with the body producing its own growth hormone (endogenous --from the inside) vs the body receiving actual growth hormone (exogenous --from the outside).

As a rule of thumb for all hormones, an exogenous hormone is "more powerful" but also "shuts down" the body's production of the same naturally occurring hormone because the exogenous hormone is present and the body doesn't need to work to get it. Frequently, once the exogenous hormone is discontinued, the natural ability of the body to start producing the same hormone naturally doesn't bounce back to baseline. With Tesamorelin, the mechanism of producing the natural hormone is never shut down, in fact, like a muscle it might become exercised.

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HGH is not like Test or other AAS, natural production returns to baseline in about 48 hours (sometime a bit longer). Also, never heard of Tesa permanently increasing natural GH amounts (enlarging your pituitary gland like a muscle?), you would just return to baseline after as well.

If you were worried about long term HGH use somehow atrophying your pituitary gland, you could cycle it for 3-6 months, then use Tesa to help with natural production in-between cycles.
 
Retract8740 said:


HGH is not like Test or other AAS, natural production returns to baseline in about 48 hours (sometime a bit longer). Also, never heard of Tesa permanently increasing natural GH amounts (enlarging your pituitary gland like a muscle?), you would just return to baseline after as well.

If you were worried about long term HGH use somehow atrophying your pituitary gland, you could cycle it for 3-6 months, then use Tesa to help with natural production in-between cycles.

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Thats what i thought too. Id never heard that hgh wouldn't return to baseline, nor that tesa could possibly increase my natural amounts. What youre saying is what I thought i knew!
 
@Gr33dyOctopus with consideration and respect for @Retract8740 let me further explain the physiology and extend the good wish that your hormone levels always bounce back after adding exogenous hormones to your body. In endocrinology, what I explained is a foundational rule of the human body: when you introduce exogenous (outside) hormones, your body downregulates or completely shuts down its endogenous (natural) production of that same hormone.

The primary mechanism behind this is a negative feedback loop.

This is the physiology of the loop explained:

The body maintains hormone levels within a very tight window to achieve homeostasis (balance). Most major hormone systems are controlled by a multi-tiered axis involving the brain and a target peripheral gland.

The control system generally follows a three-step chain of command:

The Hypothalamus (in the brain) senses low levels and releases a releasing hormone.

The Pituitary Gland (also in the brain) senses that releasing hormone and secretes a stimulating hormone into the bloodstream.

The Target Gland (like the thyroid, adrenal glands, or gonads) receives the signal and produces the final peripheral hormone.

The Feedback Mechanism

The hypothalamus and pituitary gland have highly sensitive receptors that constantly monitor the concentration of hormones circulating in the blood.

With Normal Physiology: When the peripheral hormone gets high enough, it binds to receptors in the brain, sending a signal that says, "We have plenty. Stop sending the signal." The hypothalamus and pituitary slow down, levels drop slightly, and the cycle repeats.

With Exogenous Intrusion: When you introduce an outside hormone, the brain's receptors cannot distinguish between the hormone you took and the hormone your body made. It simply registers an excess.

Believing the target gland is working overtime, the hypothalamus stops secreting its releasing hormones, and the pituitary stops secreting its stimulating hormones. Without that upstream signal, the target gland goes dormant.

When you inject exogenous HGH, the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland immediately detect the surge via specialized receptors. The hypothalamus responds by shutting down the release of GHRH (the accelerator). Concurrently, the hypothalamus upregulates the release of Somatostatin (also known as Growth Hormone-Inhibiting Hormone, or GHIH), which acts as the ultimate biological brake, actively blocking the pituitary from releasing any stored HGH.

When exogenous HGH drives up circulating IGF-1 levels, this triggers a secondary, powerful negative feedback loop. High levels of IGF-1 signal back to both the hypothalamus and the pituitary, further reinforcing the suppression of GHRH and reinforcing the release of somatostatin.

For certain individuals, natural baseline HGH production eventually returns (often within days to a couple of weeks, depending on the duration and dosage of the cycle and age) because the somatotroph cells often only need time to be re-awakened by GHRH.

For some, this doesn’t happen. Ever. For older men (who stopped producing HGH) or those who have been shut-down and subsequently produce zero HGH naturally, frequently (not always) stimulating those receptors with a medication like Tesamorelin will coax the body to produce HGH. Though, not always.

My hope is that you are among those that bounce back after introducing any exogenous hormone into your body. Disregard my explanation of the physiology of the endocrine system if it doesn't appeal to your paradigm and know of my wishes for your success.
 
PickleWitch said:


I started 9 days ago (1.5 per day, in the AM) and my weight shot up - I know it’s likely water weight, but I wasn’t expecting 3 to 4 lbs in a week. Has this been the norm for anyone else?

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Yep, me. I'm normally 123-125lbs without Ipa/CJC and/or Tessa/Ipa and on them I am 5lbs heavier. At first I will also notice some undereye swelling but that tends to go away after week 2.
 
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