Will the price go down?

[FNG33]

Goonwise said:

headward said:

Just so everyone knows, a really large frog gb has just put out 10mg elora at $170 per kit. Shipping is likely $15. Endo/mass/purity testing comes with it. However, it takes 8-12 weeks before it arrives. They are also offering r30 for $89.

For the R30, is it LN as per usual, or does it come from a different vendor? Did El Frog mention anything about that?

The R's price is not known.

 

[Grogu]

HouseCat said:

Grogu said:

Habibibi said:

Prices have already come down, and as is the case with every GLP1, they will keep coming down.

Yeah, when more producers start competing, the cost is bound to come down. What I'm curious about, though, is whether Changsha really runs tests, or whether they can even ship anything at all. Getting ripped off wouldn't be a small loss. Earlier today I caught myself thinking: if I end up being scammed, this is likely the one that does it.

Same here — I'm hoping Changsha turns out well! I've already put my cash in the slot machine, pulled the arm, and now I'm just waiting on triple cherries

Actually, Changsha keeps coming up more often than I first expected, and because of that my confidence has gone up from zero to roughly 50% .

My earlier assumption was that Changsa only worked with a single group buy channel, yet Changsha has been tied to other channels too. I still question whether any of this translates into elora actually being delivered. On top of that, given how many buys are happening, it seems possible that Changsha has stretched itself too thin. Then again, what do I know — this isn't my home world. Where I'm from, we'd put it like this: “Anything about Changsha, I know not.”

 

[Calm Logic]

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

 

[woundcarping]

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

I'm not sure Gemini's take is something I'd put much stock in... it comes across as more flashy than factual.

About receptor activity... "Extreme glucagon overdrive" is claimed, yet Reta plus Elora gets called "dual pathway"... as far as I know there are 4 paths.

For both of them, the main driver is almost certainly eating less.

Glycogen Status: "Chronic, irreversible depletion..." Seriously?

Cardio risk: "High risk of chronic cardio stress and arrhythmias".. Seriously? 12mg is fine, but 15mg suddenly turns it into a high risk?

Primary Bottleneck: "System toxicity and physical exhaustion"... that wording is meant to sound alarming...

From someone who has run supraclincal dosing for two+ months and still going.

 

[Calm Logic]

Elora carries a lower risk of overdose compared to cagri:




CAGRI Overdose???



Allow me to step in here. Yesterday, my wife's research rat was given 3.75mg/ .75ml BAC water of Cagri rather than the 7.5mg Tirz she normally takes. Right now she is extremely nauseous and vomiting so much it has turned into dry heaves. Which dangers do I need to watch out for, and how can I make her more comfortable? She is the primary care giver...

GLP1Chat.com

woundcarping said:

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

I'm not sure Gemini's take is something I'd put much stock in... it comes across as more flashy than factual.

About receptor activity... "Extreme glucagon overdrive" is claimed, yet Reta plus Elora gets called "dual pathway"... as far as I know there are 4 paths.

For both of them, the main driver is almost certainly eating less.

Glycogen Status: "Chronic, irreversible depletion..." Seriously?

Cardio risk: "High risk of chronic cardio stress and arrhythmias".. Seriously? 12mg is fine, but 15mg suddenly turns it into a high risk?

Primary Bottleneck: "System toxicity and physical exhaustion"... that wording is meant to sound alarming...

From someone who has run supraclincal dosing for two+ months and still going.

Do you experience diminishing returns?

 

[woundcarping]

Calm Logic said:

Elora carries a lower risk of overdose compared to cagri:




CAGRI Overdose???



Allow me to step in here. Yesterday, my wife's research rat was given 3.75mg/ .75ml BAC water of Cagri rather than the 7.5mg Tirz she normally takes. Right now she is extremely nauseous and vomiting so much it has turned into dry heaves. Which dangers do I need to watch out for, and how can I make her more comfortable? She is the primary care giver...

View attachment 9773


GLP1Chat.com

woundcarping said:

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

I'm not sure Gemini's take is something I'd put much stock in... it comes across as more flashy than factual.

About receptor activity... "Extreme glucagon overdrive" is claimed, yet Reta plus Elora gets called "dual pathway"... as far as I know there are 4 paths.

For both of them, the main driver is almost certainly eating less.

Glycogen Status: "Chronic, irreversible depletion..." Seriously?

Cardio risk: "High risk of chronic cardio stress and arrhythmias".. Seriously? 12mg is fine, but 15mg suddenly turns it into a high risk?

Primary Bottleneck: "System toxicity and physical exhaustion"... that wording is meant to sound alarming...

From someone who has run supraclincal dosing for two+ months and still going.

Do you experience diminishing returns?

Yeah, obviously.

 

[Mr. Smith]

Elora is not a GLP, it's different. It shouldn't be expected to behave the same way. This is a "modified Cagri" that comes with cagri-like side effects, though less severe. Just check the clinical.

 

[woundcarping]

Calm Logic said:

Elora carries a lower risk of overdose compared to cagri:




CAGRI Overdose???



Allow me to step in here. Yesterday, my wife's research rat was given 3.75mg/ .75ml BAC water of Cagri rather than the 7.5mg Tirz she normally takes. Right now she is extremely nauseous and vomiting so much it has turned into dry heaves. Which dangers do I need to watch out for, and how can I make her more comfortable? She is the primary care giver...

View attachment 9773


GLP1Chat.com

woundcarping said:

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

I'm not sure Gemini's take is something I'd put much stock in... it comes across as more flashy than factual.

About receptor activity... "Extreme glucagon overdrive" is claimed, yet Reta plus Elora gets called "dual pathway"... as far as I know there are 4 paths.

For both of them, the main driver is almost certainly eating less.

Glycogen Status: "Chronic, irreversible depletion..." Seriously?

Cardio risk: "High risk of chronic cardio stress and arrhythmias".. Seriously? 12mg is fine, but 15mg suddenly turns it into a high risk?

Primary Bottleneck: "System toxicity and physical exhaustion"... that wording is meant to sound alarming...

From someone who has run supraclincal dosing for two+ months and still going.

Do you experience diminishing returns?

Do you mean returns that shrink as the mg goes up?

 

[Calm Logic]

woundcarping said:

Calm Logic said:

Elora carries a lower risk of overdose compared to cagri:




CAGRI Overdose???



Allow me to step in here. Yesterday, my wife's research rat was given 3.75mg/ .75ml BAC water of Cagri rather than the 7.5mg Tirz she normally takes. Right now she is extremely nauseous and vomiting so much it has turned into dry heaves. Which dangers do I need to watch out for, and how can I make her more comfortable? She is the primary care giver...

View attachment 9773


GLP1Chat.com

woundcarping said:

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

I'm not sure Gemini's take is something I'd put much stock in... it comes across as more flashy than factual.

About receptor activity... "Extreme glucagon overdrive" is claimed, yet Reta plus Elora gets called "dual pathway"... as far as I know there are 4 paths.

For both of them, the main driver is almost certainly eating less.

Glycogen Status: "Chronic, irreversible depletion..." Seriously?

Cardio risk: "High risk of chronic cardio stress and arrhythmias".. Seriously? 12mg is fine, but 15mg suddenly turns it into a high risk?

Primary Bottleneck: "System toxicity and physical exhaustion"... that wording is meant to sound alarming...

From someone who has run supraclincal dosing for two+ months and still going.

Do you experience diminishing returns?

Do you mean returns that shrink as the mg goes up?

Indeed.

 

[lessthanhalf]

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

The Gemini assessment doesn't sit well with me. It prioritizes a compelling narrative above scientific rigor, and it puts forward many sweeping, unverified assertions without any supporting evidence. I've witnessed the standard Gemini model output complete nonsense.

A very different answer comes back if you use chatgpt in research/scholar mode.

Elora plus reta could very well become the state of the art combination, but nothing is proven yet, and it is too early to even rely on unreliable anecdotal internet reports yet. Even so, I would probably try adding in low dose elora to reta rather than high dose reta.

 

[Calm Logic]

lessthanhalf said:

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

The Gemini assessment doesn't sit well with me. It prioritizes a compelling narrative above scientific rigor, and it puts forward many sweeping, unverified assertions without any supporting evidence. I've witnessed the standard Gemini model output complete nonsense.

A very different answer comes back if you use chatgpt in research/scholar mode.

Elora plus reta could very well become the state of the art combination, but nothing is proven yet, and it is too early to even rely on unreliable anecdotal internet reports yet. Even so, I would probably try adding in low dose elora to reta rather than high dose reta.

That's right. Around 8 mg of reta appears to be where LDL reduction from reta itself peaks. Beyond that point, you're mainly getting additional weight loss.

Reta at just 4 mg by itself still outperforms cagrisema. So as you noted, cagrisema didn't impress, and that's particularly the case when it comes to LDL:


Checking your browser - reCAPTCHA

 

[headward]

Over at Changsha, elora is priced at $165 for 10mg and $210 for 15mg. That said, my understanding is that there's a massive manufacturing backlog tied to it, though I can't say for certain. As for their COAs, I'm in the dark too—whether testing will happen, or what the plan is, I really don't know. Still, it's notable that a vendor is now offering it at a lower price directly.

 

[dogmom]

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

 

[TooGood76]

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

Calm Logic said:

lessthanhalf said:

At first I figured elora was priced so high there was no point even looking at it. Then I actually sat down and ran the numbers against cagri, which is what I'm on right now at 0.25 every 4 days (plus tirz4.25/reta 1.5/2days).

$300 usd for 100mg works out to $3 per mg. Cagri runs roughly $100 usd per 50mg, so $2/mg.

The top elora dose in the studies was 9mg, while cagri topped out at 2.4mg. That's not an exact way to compare doses, but it lands at about 3.75:1 elora to cagri.

So if I'm on 0.5 cagri/w, the roughly matching elora dose would be 2mg /week. That's $1 usd /week for cagri against $6 usd/week for elora.

Bottom line, it's 6x the cost, which is a lot more, but still cheap by any normal measure, and it doesn't come out pricier than my current tirz/reta dose at about $10 aud/week. My hunch is that if it genuinely has fewer side effects than cagri, and with cagri I can't really push the dose up because the nausea gets worse, then it would be simple enough to keep raising the dose until it starts getting pricey.

Finding the full cagri papers was a real pain, I could only get the abstracts, and those didn't break out detailed side effect rates. Still, from what I have seen it looks like cagri has more side effects than elora, and that elora at the lower doses, at least 3mg or below, has fairly low rates of nausea and fatigue, only 10% or so. It may also spare muscle better, and may produce higher maximum weight loss. It may also add more weight loss when stacked on reta or tirz. Cagri didn't show much extra weight loss when added to semaglutide.

elora weight loss 1mg 7-8% 3mg 10-12% 6mg 18% 9mg 20% at 48 weeks weight still going down

compared with cagri phase 1 1.2mg 15% 2.4mg 17%

My reta supply isn't exhausted yet. That said, the idea of picking up elora earlier rather than waiting is appealing. The catch: reta costs far less than elora, yet Gemini rates elora combined with reta as better than pushing reta to supraclinical amounts:

Gemini said:


Feature12 mg Retatrutide + 6 mg EloralintideSupraclinical Retatrutide (15+ mg)Estimated Weight Loss~35% or greater~30–35% (approaching diminishing returns)Receptor ActivityBalanced multi-pathway (GLP-1, GIP, Glucagon, Amylin)Extreme Glucagon overdrivePrimary MechanismProfound dual-pathway satiety and targeted meal terminationForced, relentless metabolic burnLean Mass ImpactHigh risk of loss due primarily to severely restricted caloric intakeSevere, forced muscle catabolism regardless of intakeGlycogen StatusCan be maintained with targeted carbohydrate nutritionChronic, irreversible depletion from constant hepatic dumpingCardiovascular RiskModerately elevated resting heart rateHigh risk of chronic cardiovascular stress and arrhythmiasPrimary BottleneckPhysical inability to consume adequate maintenance caloriesSystemic toxicity and physical exhaustion

Click to expand...

The Gemini assessment doesn't sit well with me. It prioritizes a compelling narrative above scientific rigor, and it puts forward many sweeping, unverified assertions without any supporting evidence. I've witnessed the standard Gemini model output complete nonsense.

A very different answer comes back if you use chatgpt in research/scholar mode.

Elora plus reta could very well become the state of the art combination, but nothing is proven yet, and it is too early to even rely on unreliable anecdotal internet reports yet. Even so, I would probably try adding in low dose elora to reta rather than high dose reta.

That's right. Around 8 mg of reta appears to be where LDL reduction from reta itself peaks. Beyond that point, you're mainly getting additional weight loss.

Reta at just 4 mg by itself still outperforms cagrisema. So as you noted, cagrisema didn't impress, and that's particularly the case when it comes to LDL:


Checking your browser - reCAPTCHA

For Novo, CagriSema really comes across as a letdown. Even with two drugs combined, it still can't beat tirz, and it brings a hefty side effect profile along with it. For those who can't handle tirz for whatever reason but are fine with sema, it will be a solid choice, and it does help market competition. Still, at this point Novo has to be going hard against the triple agonist they acquired. If the stage 3 data holds up, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a play for VK2735

 

[headward]

dogmom said:

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

According to Peter at Jano, it all comes down to essentially the same product, and that additional $3k for testing isn't necessary. Perhaps another person can add more detail.

 

[Grogu]

headward said:

dogmom said:

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

According to Peter at Jano, it all comes down to essentially the same product, and that additional $3k for testing isn't necessary. Perhaps another person can add more detail.

If @dogmom is wondering whether Uther differs from the "other" vendor that recently came onto the scene, my take is that lots of people suspect the API comes from one and the same source. That said, I don't see how anyone could ever confirm it. It does sound believable. Maybe Uther and the "other" vendor are actually the same operation. Still, if it's made properly, elora from Uther "should be" the same peptide as what the other vendor sells.

On the testing side of things, eloralintide has a more complex molecular structure than sema, triz, or reta. It's even more complex than cagrilintide. And not just slightly more, but much more. The thing everyone keeps zeroing in on is the "ring" structure and whether it forms correctly in the right spot. NMR is the "best" way to check that. A lot of labs don't even own that equipment, and Jano only just bought one. It's costly, and Jano wants to recover what was spent. So if people want the complete structural confirmation via NMR, testing won't be cheap. Jano also charges a higher rate for plain m/p. Same reason again: it's more complex, and I believe Peter is more hands-on with the day-to-day results. Just like what happened with the cost of elora, I expect testing prices will eventually fall.

 

[woundcarping]

Grogu said:

headward said:

dogmom said:

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

According to Peter at Jano, it all comes down to essentially the same product, and that additional $3k for testing isn't necessary. Perhaps another person can add more detail.

If @dogmom is wondering whether Uther differs from the "other" vendor that recently came onto the scene, my take is that lots of people suspect the API comes from one and the same source. That said, I don't see how anyone could ever confirm it. It does sound believable. Maybe Uther and the "other" vendor are actually the same operation. Still, if it's made properly, elora from Uther "should be" the same peptide as what the other vendor sells.

On the testing side of things, eloralintide has a more complex molecular structure than sema, triz, or reta. It's even more complex than cagrilintide. And not just slightly more, but much more. The thing everyone keeps zeroing in on is the "ring" structure and whether it forms correctly in the right spot. NMR is the "best" way to check that. A lot of labs don't even own that equipment, and Jano only just bought one. It's costly, and Jano wants to recover what was spent. So if people want the complete structural confirmation via NMR, testing won't be cheap. Jano also charges a higher rate for plain m/p. Same reason again: it's more complex, and I believe Peter is more hands-on with the day-to-day results. Just like what happened with the cost of elora, I expect testing prices will eventually fall.

Jano mentioned that once he recouped the development expenses across what he described as “several dozen” tests, the price would drop.

 

[Grogu]

woundcarping said:

Grogu said:

headward said:

dogmom said:

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

According to Peter at Jano, it all comes down to essentially the same product, and that additional $3k for testing isn't necessary. Perhaps another person can add more detail.

If @dogmom is wondering whether Uther differs from the "other" vendor that recently came onto the scene, my take is that lots of people suspect the API comes from one and the same source. That said, I don't see how anyone could ever confirm it. It does sound believable. Maybe Uther and the "other" vendor are actually the same operation. Still, if it's made properly, elora from Uther "should be" the same peptide as what the other vendor sells.

On the testing side of things, eloralintide has a more complex molecular structure than sema, triz, or reta. It's even more complex than cagrilintide. And not just slightly more, but much more. The thing everyone keeps zeroing in on is the "ring" structure and whether it forms correctly in the right spot. NMR is the "best" way to check that. A lot of labs don't even own that equipment, and Jano only just bought one. It's costly, and Jano wants to recover what was spent. So if people want the complete structural confirmation via NMR, testing won't be cheap. Jano also charges a higher rate for plain m/p. Same reason again: it's more complex, and I believe Peter is more hands-on with the day-to-day results. Just like what happened with the cost of elora, I expect testing prices will eventually fall.

Jano mentioned that once he recouped the development expenses across what he described as “several dozen” tests, the price would drop.

Absolutely — he's looking to get back what he spent on setup. The cost lands on those who buy first

 

[HereKittyKitty]

Grogu said:

woundcarping said:

Grogu said:

headward said:

dogmom said:

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

According to Peter at Jano, it all comes down to essentially the same product, and that additional $3k for testing isn't necessary. Perhaps another person can add more detail.

If @dogmom is wondering whether Uther differs from the "other" vendor that recently came onto the scene, my take is that lots of people suspect the API comes from one and the same source. That said, I don't see how anyone could ever confirm it. It does sound believable. Maybe Uther and the "other" vendor are actually the same operation. Still, if it's made properly, elora from Uther "should be" the same peptide as what the other vendor sells.

On the testing side of things, eloralintide has a more complex molecular structure than sema, triz, or reta. It's even more complex than cagrilintide. And not just slightly more, but much more. The thing everyone keeps zeroing in on is the "ring" structure and whether it forms correctly in the right spot. NMR is the "best" way to check that. A lot of labs don't even own that equipment, and Jano only just bought one. It's costly, and Jano wants to recover what was spent. So if people want the complete structural confirmation via NMR, testing won't be cheap. Jano also charges a higher rate for plain m/p. Same reason again: it's more complex, and I believe Peter is more hands-on with the day-to-day results. Just like what happened with the cost of elora, I expect testing prices will eventually fall.

Jano mentioned that once he recouped the development expenses across what he described as “several dozen” tests, the price would drop.

Absolutely — he's looking to get back what he spent on setup. The cost lands on those who buy first

Recovering what he put in upfront is fair enough. That's just how things go. If he truly talked about what sounds like a fairly brief window, then it seems he's laid out a pretty forceful timeline.

 

[Grogu]

HereKittyKitty said:

Grogu said:

woundcarping said:

Grogu said:

headward said:

dogmom said:

Uther still lists it at 350, from what I saw. I'm interested in giving it a shot. Then again, when I notice other vendors charging far lower prices, I start questioning whether the formulation is identical. I'll hold off until other people act as guinea pigs.

According to Peter at Jano, it all comes down to essentially the same product, and that additional $3k for testing isn't necessary. Perhaps another person can add more detail.

If @dogmom is wondering whether Uther differs from the "other" vendor that recently came onto the scene, my take is that lots of people suspect the API comes from one and the same source. That said, I don't see how anyone could ever confirm it. It does sound believable. Maybe Uther and the "other" vendor are actually the same operation. Still, if it's made properly, elora from Uther "should be" the same peptide as what the other vendor sells.

On the testing side of things, eloralintide has a more complex molecular structure than sema, triz, or reta. It's even more complex than cagrilintide. And not just slightly more, but much more. The thing everyone keeps zeroing in on is the "ring" structure and whether it forms correctly in the right spot. NMR is the "best" way to check that. A lot of labs don't even own that equipment, and Jano only just bought one. It's costly, and Jano wants to recover what was spent. So if people want the complete structural confirmation via NMR, testing won't be cheap. Jano also charges a higher rate for plain m/p. Same reason again: it's more complex, and I believe Peter is more hands-on with the day-to-day results. Just like what happened with the cost of elora, I expect testing prices will eventually fall.

Jano mentioned that once he recouped the development expenses across what he described as “several dozen” tests, the price would drop.

Absolutely — he's looking to get back what he spent on setup. The cost lands on those who buy first

Recovering what he put in upfront is fair enough. That's just how things go. If he truly talked about what sounds like a fairly brief window, then it seems he's laid out a pretty forceful timeline.

I never claimed it was unreasonable — that doesn’t obligate me to be happy about it.

Sort of like when gas prices climb because of what’s happening in the Straits of Hormuz. Prices at the pump rose. That’s just how it goes. Still doesn’t make it pleasant to pay more when you fill up.