Older gents (40+) — anyone quit TRT deliberately and rebuilt their own testosterone output?

[jason370]

This carries long odds and it won't speak to most people. Even so, it strikes me that the following sequence might just be workable:

1. Sit below 300 on Test

2. Carry too much fat

3. Begin TRT

4. Turn that around (add muscle, shed fat)

5. Train every day, keep the diet clean.

6. Come off TRT, and run whichever hgh and peptide combination best pushes your own testosterone production upward

7. Let natural output climb past 600/700, maybe further still.

Whether any of this is achievable I honestly can't say — I'm just tossing it out there, gents. Training raises Test, though, and so do various non TRT compounds. So it seems worth wondering whether a person's own production can be woken back up.

Tear it apart if you like.

 

[woundcarping]

Which mechanism, exactly, lifts hypogonadal activity up past 600+ng/dl? And why does exogenous test get handed out first instead of something along those lines?

 

[gusterbuster]

Hmm, from what you're describing the Enclomiphene path sounds like the fit. hcg could be worth adding to push your own production.

Honestly though, trt is great and I really don't mind pinning 3x a week. Why anyone would walk away once they've had a taste of life on high test I can't figure out. hcg keeps the testes working, and for a guy trying to conceive that's typically the whole answer, maybe with hmg stacked on top. Run trt long enough, though, and the testes go quiet unless hcg is holding them up — which makes climbing back to a decent test level at the end that much harder, all the more so when you were hypogonadal going in.

One more thing: hcg brings its own baggage. Anyone who already fights estradiol will likely see it climb on hcg. And carrying too much bodyfat generally means more of your testosterone gets aromatized into estradiol.

 

[jason370]

woundcarping said:

Which mechanism, exactly, lifts hypogonadal activity up past 600+ng/dl? And why does exogenous test get handed out first instead of something along those lines?

trt is treating me very well and I have no complaints. I simply wondered whether such a thing could be done at all.

 

[Gt3294a]

jason370 said:

This carries long odds and it won't speak to most people. Even so, it strikes me that the following sequence might just be workable:

1. Sit below 300 on Test

2. Carry too much fat

3. Begin TRT

4. Turn that around (add muscle, shed fat)

5. Train every day, keep the diet clean.

6. Come off TRT, and run whichever hgh and peptide combination best pushes your own testosterone production upward

7. Let natural output climb past 600/700, maybe further still.

Whether any of this is achievable I honestly can't say — I'm just tossing it out there, gents. Training raises Test, though, and so do various non TRT compounds. So it seems worth wondering whether a person's own production can be woken back up.

Tear it apart if you like.

so back around 15 years ago, the default move a lot of doctors made when a patient wanted a kid was to pull them off trt entirely — or off a blast and cruise. I remember it clearly, because my own doctor said as much. The usual shape of it is that you run a PCT and more or less stay on it. Give that a try and watch what your test does coming back. It might even come back high enough that the PCT can be dropped. That you'll actually arrive there, I doubt. I wouldn't take that bet myself, and I'm deeply unconvinced that shedding bfp and training harder carries you from your 300 up to 700. And if the answer is clomid or something similar forever, what's the argument against just test? Still, everybody has their own reasons, so best of luck whichever way you go.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

When I began the enclophimine (7.5mg/day) I sat under 300, and barely two months later I had climbed close to 500. What enclomiphene does is tell your body to produce its own T

Weight has come off me too, and my insulin numbers keep dropping since I added the tirzepitide. My hope is that as my metabolism settles back toward where it should be, the natural output of T comes back with it

 

[CharlieBrown]

jason370 said:

This carries long odds and it won't speak to most people. Even so, it strikes me that the following sequence might just be workable:

1. Sit below 300 on Test

2. Carry too much fat

3. Begin TRT

4. Turn that around (add muscle, shed fat)

5. Train every day, keep the diet clean.

6. Come off TRT, and run whichever hgh and peptide combination best pushes your own testosterone production upward

7. Let natural output climb past 600/700, maybe further still.

Whether any of this is achievable I honestly can't say — I'm just tossing it out there, gents. Training raises Test, though, and so do various non TRT compounds. So it seems worth wondering whether a person's own production can be woken back up.

Tear it apart if you like.

Down the road a few years, once pinning TRT wears thin, I expect I'll give this a shot.

The protocol I have in mind would look like this.

1. HCG: run after the cycle it can lift LH levels, which spurs the Leydig cells into making more testosterone of your own. Male hypogonadism is not the only thing HCG has been given for — obesity is on the list too.

2. Clomid: capable of driving natural testosterone production. That matters a great deal for anyone whose testosterone has been suppressed by anabolic steroid use.

 

[Gt3294a]

Turbo-Farmer said:

When I began the enclophimine (7.5mg/day) I sat under 300, and barely two months later I had climbed close to 500. What enclomiphene does is tell your body to produce its own T

Weight has come off me too, and my insulin numbers keep dropping since I added the tirzepitide. My hope is that as my metabolism settles back toward where it should be, the natural output of T comes back with it

Genuinely asking — what long term upside did you weigh for staying on enclo indefinitely rather than going with testosterone (fertility aside, and people will argue that one either way)? Take a case where enclo keeps your testosterone at 600, or 100mg of testosterone a week does it.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

Gt3294a said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

When I began the enclophimine (7.5mg/day) I sat under 300, and barely two months later I had climbed close to 500. What enclomiphene does is tell your body to produce its own T

Weight has come off me too, and my insulin numbers keep dropping since I added the tirzepitide. My hope is that as my metabolism settles back toward where it should be, the natural output of T comes back with it

Genuinely asking — what long term upside did you weigh for staying on enclo indefinitely rather than going with testosterone (fertility aside, and people will argue that one either way)? Take a case where enclo keeps your testosterone at 600, or 100mg of testosterone a week does it.

My hope is that once my fasting insulin comes down, the enclo can go and normal production comes back.

How insulin resistance hits testosterone

1. Where it lands first: the testes

What the research describes is insulin resistance doing direct damage to the Leydig cells in the testes — the very cells that churn out testosterone. Once your body turns resistant to insulin:

• Those Leydig cells stop responding as readily to Luteinizing Hormone (LH)—the "start engine" signal from your brain.

• Your brain can be screaming for more testosterone and the testes still won't "hear" it as clearly, so output drops.

2. Belly fat and aromatization

Extra visceral (belly) fat is almost always part of the picture with insulin resistance. That fat is not merely stored energy; it is metabolically active and carries an enzyme called aromatase.

• Whatever testosterone you have, aromatase takes and converts into estrogen.

• Estrogen climbing then tells your brain, "We have plenty of hormones," and the brain accordingly eases off the signal to make more testosterone.

3. SHBG gets pushed down

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) — the protein that ferries testosterone through your blood — is strongly influenced by insulin levels.

• When insulin runs high, the liver is signalled to make less SHBG.

• That can sound like it would leave more "free" testosterone, but a low SHBG is regularly a marker of metabolic dysfunction, and it tracks consistently with lower total testosterone over time.

4. The brain and inflammation

A low-grade inflammatory state is what chronic insulin resistance creates. That inflammation is capable of disrupting the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal (HPG) axis. In plain terms, the "command center" in your brain gets worse at watching and steering your hormone levels, and production falls off as a result.

The hopeful part: it can reverse

The encouraging part is that the relationship runs both directions, so repairing one side usually helps the other. Making yourself more insulin sensitive—is among the most effective "natural" ways to boost testosterone.

 

[Gt3294a]

Turbo-Farmer said:

Gt3294a said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

When I began the enclophimine (7.5mg/day) I sat under 300, and barely two months later I had climbed close to 500. What enclomiphene does is tell your body to produce its own T

Weight has come off me too, and my insulin numbers keep dropping since I added the tirzepitide. My hope is that as my metabolism settles back toward where it should be, the natural output of T comes back with it

Genuinely asking — what long term upside did you weigh for staying on enclo indefinitely rather than going with testosterone (fertility aside, and people will argue that one either way)? Take a case where enclo keeps your testosterone at 600, or 100mg of testosterone a week does it.

My hope is that once my fasting insulin comes down, the enclo can go and normal production comes back.

How insulin resistance hits testosterone

1. Where it lands first: the testes

What the research describes is insulin resistance doing direct damage to the Leydig cells in the testes — the very cells that churn out testosterone. Once your body turns resistant to insulin:

• Those Leydig cells stop responding as readily to Luteinizing Hormone (LH)—the "start engine" signal from your brain.

• Your brain can be screaming for more testosterone and the testes still won't "hear" it as clearly, so output drops.

2. Belly fat and aromatization

Extra visceral (belly) fat is almost always part of the picture with insulin resistance. That fat is not merely stored energy; it is metabolically active and carries an enzyme called aromatase.

• Whatever testosterone you have, aromatase takes and converts into estrogen.

• Estrogen climbing then tells your brain, "We have plenty of hormones," and the brain accordingly eases off the signal to make more testosterone.

3. SHBG gets pushed down

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) — the protein that ferries testosterone through your blood — is strongly influenced by insulin levels.

• When insulin runs high, the liver is signalled to make less SHBG.

• That can sound like it would leave more "free" testosterone, but a low SHBG is regularly a marker of metabolic dysfunction, and it tracks consistently with lower total testosterone over time.

4. The brain and inflammation

A low-grade inflammatory state is what chronic insulin resistance creates. That inflammation is capable of disrupting the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal (HPG) axis. In plain terms, the "command center" in your brain gets worse at watching and steering your hormone levels, and production falls off as a result.

The hopeful part: it can reverse

The encouraging part is that the relationship runs both directions, so repairing one side usually helps the other. Making yourself more insulin sensitive—is among the most effective "natural" ways to boost testosterone.

Best of luck with it. My sense is that 20 years back, trying clomid or HCG to see whether a guy could come off was a pretty standard approach. So I'd expect it can work. I've come around to liking my shots, though I understand why someone would rather stay clear of them.

 

[jason370]

Gt3294a said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

Gt3294a said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

When I began the enclophimine (7.5mg/day) I sat under 300, and barely two months later I had climbed close to 500. What enclomiphene does is tell your body to produce its own T

Weight has come off me too, and my insulin numbers keep dropping since I added the tirzepitide. My hope is that as my metabolism settles back toward where it should be, the natural output of T comes back with it

Genuinely asking — what long term upside did you weigh for staying on enclo indefinitely rather than going with testosterone (fertility aside, and people will argue that one either way)? Take a case where enclo keeps your testosterone at 600, or 100mg of testosterone a week does it.

My hope is that once my fasting insulin comes down, the enclo can go and normal production comes back.

How insulin resistance hits testosterone

1. Where it lands first: the testes

What the research describes is insulin resistance doing direct damage to the Leydig cells in the testes — the very cells that churn out testosterone. Once your body turns resistant to insulin:

• Those Leydig cells stop responding as readily to Luteinizing Hormone (LH)—the "start engine" signal from your brain.

• Your brain can be screaming for more testosterone and the testes still won't "hear" it as clearly, so output drops.

2. Belly fat and aromatization

Extra visceral (belly) fat is almost always part of the picture with insulin resistance. That fat is not merely stored energy; it is metabolically active and carries an enzyme called aromatase.

• Whatever testosterone you have, aromatase takes and converts into estrogen.

• Estrogen climbing then tells your brain, "We have plenty of hormones," and the brain accordingly eases off the signal to make more testosterone.

3. SHBG gets pushed down

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) — the protein that ferries testosterone through your blood — is strongly influenced by insulin levels.

• When insulin runs high, the liver is signalled to make less SHBG.

• That can sound like it would leave more "free" testosterone, but a low SHBG is regularly a marker of metabolic dysfunction, and it tracks consistently with lower total testosterone over time.

4. The brain and inflammation

A low-grade inflammatory state is what chronic insulin resistance creates. That inflammation is capable of disrupting the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal (HPG) axis. In plain terms, the "command center" in your brain gets worse at watching and steering your hormone levels, and production falls off as a result.

The hopeful part: it can reverse

The encouraging part is that the relationship runs both directions, so repairing one side usually helps the other. Making yourself more insulin sensitive—is among the most effective "natural" ways to boost testosterone.

Best of luck with it. My sense is that 20 years back, trying clomid or HCG to see whether a guy could come off was a pretty standard approach. So I'd expect it can work. I've come around to liking my shots, though I understand why someone would rather stay clear of them.

Right now I don't lean one way or the other. I'm only interested in what the options actually are, and once I've read enough I'll settle on what looks like the better route for me. Intuition says a route that leans more natural is probably the better one — not a guarantee, but true often enough.

 

[Loosehead]

A few years back I had to stop it (51m) because my prostate started enlarging. According to my GP the TRT was to blame, and these days BPH is giving me serious trouble. As far as I can tell my testosterone has dropped quite low (no recent panel to confirm) and it doesn't seem to be recovering. Watch your PSA closely — BPH is no joke.

 

[Memo85]

Roughly 8 years on trt for me . At points I let it slide and skipped my labs, which meant starting the whole testing process over again. Most of that process is nonsense, even when the results come back low. Before I ever started I was sitting in the high 200s, and after going a year without it and trying to get back on, my test came in at 480 . Strange as it sounds, it moved up on its own during that year off.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

Loosehead said:

A few years back I had to stop it (51m) because my prostate started enlarging. According to my GP the TRT was to blame, and these days BPH is giving me serious trouble. As far as I can tell my testosterone has dropped quite low (no recent panel to confirm) and it doesn't seem to be recovering. Watch your PSA closely — BPH is no joke.

tandalafil is part of my compounded enclophime prescription, and it's prescribed for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH), which matters because prostate health ranked among my biggest worries about the shots.

 

[Loosehead]

Turbo-Farmer said:

Loosehead said:

A few years back I had to stop it (51m) because my prostate started enlarging. According to my GP the TRT was to blame, and these days BPH is giving me serious trouble. As far as I can tell my testosterone has dropped quite low (no recent panel to confirm) and it doesn't seem to be recovering. Watch your PSA closely — BPH is no joke.

tandalafil is part of my compounded enclophime prescription, and it's prescribed for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH), which matters because prostate health ranked among my biggest worries about the shots.

Tamsulosin at the maximum dose is what I take, and have for 6-7 years now. Skip it and daily life turns genuinely unpleasant. Right now I'm looking into what surgical routes are open to me over the summer.

 

[CharlieBrown]

Loosehead said:

A few years back I had to stop it (51m) because my prostate started enlarging. According to my GP the TRT was to blame, and these days BPH is giving me serious trouble. As far as I can tell my testosterone has dropped quite low (no recent panel to confirm) and it doesn't seem to be recovering. Watch your PSA closely — BPH is no joke.

Take care that you don't slide into mental health trouble. It happened to me.

To me it looked like nothing more than stress. The day after my first TRT dose; every bit of it was gone !

Google: energy, confidence and mental sharpness all lean heavily on testosterone (Straftis & Gray, 2019). A decline in testosterone reaches both the body and the mind. Lower testosterone has been shown in research to go hand in hand with depression in men.

 

[Loosehead]

CharlieBrown said:

Loosehead said:

A few years back I had to stop it (51m) because my prostate started enlarging. According to my GP the TRT was to blame, and these days BPH is giving me serious trouble. As far as I can tell my testosterone has dropped quite low (no recent panel to confirm) and it doesn't seem to be recovering. Watch your PSA closely — BPH is no joke.

Take care that you don't slide into mental health trouble. It happened to me.

To me it looked like nothing more than stress. The day after my first TRT dose; every bit of it was gone !

Google: energy, confidence and mental sharpness all lean heavily on testosterone (Straftis & Gray, 2019). A decline in testosterone reaches both the body and the mind. Lower testosterone has been shown in research to go hand in hand with depression in men.

Ya, that's a very good point. I got put on Venafaxine about 10 years back for depression and I'm currently working on coming off it. Looking back, I wish I'd dug into it far more carefully before starting. It sorted out the problems I had at the time, which I did need, but over these 10 years it has definitely reshaped who I am. Methylene Blue went into the mix a couple of months ago and that's what gave me the push to quit Venafaxine. Coming off it is a slog, though — the withdrawals and the mind games are a real headache.

 

[miameow]

For as long as I can, I'll stay on trt — I value knowing the precise amount circulating in me. The range of esters on offer appeals to me too. Should some new wonder peptide turn up that is (a) cheap and (b) pushes my test to an optimal level on its own, I might think about changing. As things stand, nothing is broken, so nothing needs fixing.

 

[slick1]

jason370 said:

This carries long odds and it won't speak to most people. Even so, it strikes me that the following sequence might just be workable:

1. Sit below 300 on Test

2. Carry too much fat

3. Begin TRT

4. Turn that around (add muscle, shed fat)

5. Train every day, keep the diet clean.

6. Come off TRT, and run whichever hgh and peptide combination best pushes your own testosterone production upward

7. Let natural output climb past 600/700, maybe further still.

Whether any of this is achievable I honestly can't say — I'm just tossing it out there, gents. Training raises Test, though, and so do various non TRT compounds. So it seems worth wondering whether a person's own production can be woken back up.

Tear it apart if you like.

Possible? Absolutely — and honestly likely, though it comes down to your age, how many years on trt, how unfit you are, how much fat you're carrying. Was your test low while/because you were unfit, or did the low test make you unfit in the first place? Depending on your age and your own particular body, 6 or 700 may stay out of reach, but so long as every system is functioning properly you can probably get back to a level that is reasonable for your years.

 

[Elgordoboy]

In my case: one of those men was carrying too much fat and out of shape with Secondary hypogonadism, which may well have resolved by now. Or possibly opiate use that he stopped. Those are two examples. Going to my pcp would have made it the recommended front line treatment, most likely. Instead of doing that I went straight to a clinic. This is not complicated

woundcarping said:

Which mechanism, exactly, lifts hypogonadal activity up past 600+ng/dl? And why does exogenous test get handed out first instead of something along those lines?