woundcarping
Explorer
It comes down to how curious you are… I’m doing an initial scan and then following up as I go. I expect my next one to happen around April.
My Reta 3 month Journey ( with Dexa scan results)
- Thread starter Peptidedudez
- Start date
There isn't a hard rule for timing — schedule them whenever it suits you, typically at the beginning and around the midpoint, but keep in mind that water loss will occur, so treat each scan as one data point alongside other measures such as your strength levels. Another thing to keep in mind is where the lean muscle mass was primarily lost; if it seems concentrated in the stomach region, that suggests it's mostly water, undigested food, and glycogen stored in the liver.
Hydration status also matters, and when fat is lost, the fat cells are held together by a glycerol molecule — a three-carbon molecule (a sugar alcohol). On a dexa scan, that can register as lean mass, so significant weight loss will mean some lean mass is lost from the glycerol that was binding fat cells. The amount is very small, but if you drop around 30% of your fat mass, it can accumulate.
dirtyharry
Explorer
Would 1mg to 2mg of Reta be seen as excessive for a beginner? I assumed that was a fairly modest/ typical initial dose.
dirtyharry
Explorer
I'm not the one who started this thread, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents. My Reta dose has stayed on the lower end (1mg–1.5mg), and hitting my macro targets has been no problem at all (1500 Calories & 150grams of protein). That said, I'm only a short way in, so it's anyone's guess haha.
zpped
Explorer
Nope, that's okay. However, bumping up the dose every 2 weeks while dropping a lot of weight is too much too quickly.
ChicagoFit
Explorer
when figuring out the "correct" daily protein intake while using reta, what is the basis for the calculation?
1) Should protein per day be based on ideal body weight or current body weight?
2) What is the number of grams per pound?
3) Do age and/or the kind of exercise change the answer?
1) Should protein per day be based on ideal body weight or current body weight?
2) What is the number of grams per pound?
3) Do age and/or the kind of exercise change the answer?
Base it on your goal weight, at 1gm/lb.
You'll hear different numbers from different people—it's really a range, and it depends on what you're aiming for. If you're chasing hypertrophy and training hard, then dialing in protein and overall nutrition matters that much more.
For me, I throw a scoop into my coffee, then just eat normally the rest of the day. Usually I'll have a second scoop as "dessert."
woundcarping
Explorer
Look into it yourself — the grams per pound figure swings quite a bit depending on what you're after, whether it's based on lean mass or total bodyweight, bro science, and so on.
My focus is holding onto the mass I have rather than trying to add any real amount while I'm in a cut of decent size and length.
I began TRT, started lifting, and I take 3g of HMB every day as a way to safeguard lean mass. Another DEXA is on the schedule for this month or early next, so I can line it up against my baseline from late January (that's almost 50 days out from the start date — the DEXA place had lousy scheduling options).
My focus is holding onto the mass I have rather than trying to add any real amount while I'm in a cut of decent size and length.
I began TRT, started lifting, and I take 3g of HMB every day as a way to safeguard lean mass. Another DEXA is on the schedule for this month or early next, so I can line it up against my baseline from late January (that's almost 50 days out from the start date — the DEXA place had lousy scheduling options).
lessthanhalf
Explorer
Dropping 38 lbs over 10 weeks is very fast fat loss. When you're in that kind of catabolic state, muscle loss is going to happen — the body will break down whatever it can to keep going. I'd agree that as much as 10 lbs of that is water, so a more realistic split is 20 lbs of fat and 10 lbs of muscle plus other tissues/organs. To shed weight that quickly you'd need a serious calorie deficit, and that doesn't quite line up with your report of not getting much appetite suppression, which is why you moved the dose up faster.
For your particular situation there's basically no science to draw on. These drugs were developed and studied as obesity treatments, and 27% body fat isn't obese — maybe overweight. After losing 79kilos I'm probably still above that number.
My guess is your energy expenditure is fairly high, which would explain the calorie deficit without a big drop in food intake. The only reasonable approach is to lower the dose, and possibly eat more, so the rate of loss slows down and you land in a mild catabolic state instead of an extreme one — targeting something like 1 - 2 lbs per week rather than close to 4. Also keep protein high, at least 1.5g/kg/day. Some muscle loss is almost unavoidable when losing weight, though I've seen the occasional exception. Meso likely has far more material on cutting cycles, but I'm not a big fan of their mega-doses of anabolic steroids and hgh.
For your particular situation there's basically no science to draw on. These drugs were developed and studied as obesity treatments, and 27% body fat isn't obese — maybe overweight. After losing 79kilos I'm probably still above that number.
My guess is your energy expenditure is fairly high, which would explain the calorie deficit without a big drop in food intake. The only reasonable approach is to lower the dose, and possibly eat more, so the rate of loss slows down and you land in a mild catabolic state instead of an extreme one — targeting something like 1 - 2 lbs per week rather than close to 4. Also keep protein high, at least 1.5g/kg/day. Some muscle loss is almost unavoidable when losing weight, though I've seen the occasional exception. Meso likely has far more material on cutting cycles, but I'm not a big fan of their mega-doses of anabolic steroids and hgh.
ChicagoFit
Explorer
@yrrdead how do you view protein needs shifting depending on which muscle fiber type someone is training? For someone lifting weights or bodybuilding, the fast-twitch side obviously calls for "more", but where does that leave people who are endurance focused and slow-twitch dominant? Would slow-twitch versus fast-twitch breakdown lead to a different protein requirement?
Another thing: outside of Reta, 1gm per ideal weight appears to be a widely used baseline. With Reta in the picture, does that protein requirement move at all if the goal is holding onto muscle?
Another thing: outside of Reta, 1gm per ideal weight appears to be a widely used baseline. With Reta in the picture, does that protein requirement move at all if the goal is holding onto muscle?
TacoLifter420
Explorer
Cutting doesn't have to mean losing a bunch of muscle. Between last year and now I dropped from 270 down to 200 over roughly 9 months. My meals were built around protein, though I kept intake to just 1300-1400 calories daily, and protein itself landed near 150 grams. Every bite got weighed and logged. Lifting happened 3-4 times per week, plus 30 minutes of zone 2 cardio on 5 days each week. Roughly every 3 or 4 weeks during those last 3 months I ran a refeed, pushing calories up to maintenance for a single day. Muscle loss was minimal, though not zero. The stack was tirz capped at 5mg weekly alongside 200mg of testosterone per week. After that I held my weight steady for a few months, and these days I'm doing a slow recomp — not too shabby for an average 50 year old guy.
The tirz/TRT combo was key to this.
The tirz/TRT combo was key to this.
Honestly, this is a question better suited for someone with far more expertise in nutrition and exercise science than I have.
With that caveat out of the way, I doubt muscle fiber variance plays much of a role here. The most recent thing I came across on the topic (and again, take this with a huge grain of salt) basically said "we don't really know wtf is going on". What that means is you've got a jumble of fiber types mixed together, they shift based on your activity, and once you stop that activity they revert. That's not a solid foundation for adjusting protein intake. And unless you're constantly getting muscle biopsies, you'd have no idea what your current ratios even are, if that makes sense.
I'm not aware of any mechanism through which Reta would alter protein requirements.
As with most diet-related matters, you have to adjust your intake according to your own physiology and environment. But remember KISS. Pick some arbitrary starting point (1gm/lb lean mass), then move up or down based on the data you collect. Even a cheap body mass scale can hopefully give you something to base that decision on.
Last thing, remember that unless you're an elite athlete pushing limits, it really doesn't matter that much. Make an effort to hit your protein goals. If you get there great, if not, no biggie. If you are on a deficit and aren't taking any of the more extreme exogenous substances you are going to lose some muscle. I would bet if you somehow had perfect knowledge and execution with your protein strategy vs regular joe taking 1gm/lb there would be a minimal difference in catabolism.