Low test at 33 - is enclomiphene the smarter first move before TRT?

[Wenjo]

Hello! My bloodwork came back recently and my test levels were low (13nmol/l, while my doc says 10-30nmol is the normal band), so I do want to address it.

Using test just does not sit right with me when Im ”only” 33. That feels far too early to shut down my own production, particularly as trt basically is not done here in Sweden - I would be pinning test for life, illegally and from grey sources, with no medical support during cycles.

I have been reading up on Enclomiphene, though this whole world is new to me.

Any advice on what to do and how to go about it? What would you do in my place? Thanks in advance!

 

[Pocket]

I am in much the same position. My labs came back with test inside the normal range, but right at the bottom of it. Years ago, when my ex and I were trying for a kid, a doctor put me on clomid (he wanted to supercharge the baby maker and rule me out as the problem) and I did fine on it, so I picked up some clomid again hoping to lift my test that way. I have not tried enclo yet, but from what I have read and from other people accounts it is Clomid minus the possible mood sides. Once my current Clomid supply runs out, I intend to get Enclo.

Overall, if Enclo is available to you, take it. If it is not, Clomid is worth considering - just keep an eye on the mood sides (the Clomid Crazies).

 

[Wenjo]

Pocket said:

I am in much the same position. My labs came back with test inside the normal range, but right at the bottom of it. Years ago, when my ex and I were trying for a kid, a doctor put me on clomid (he wanted to supercharge the baby maker and rule me out as the problem) and I did fine on it, so I picked up some clomid again hoping to lift my test that way. I have not tried enclo yet, but from what I have read and from other people accounts it is Clomid minus the possible mood sides. Once my current Clomid supply runs out, I intend to get Enclo.

Overall, if Enclo is available to you, take it. If it is not, Clomid is worth considering - just keep an eye on the mood sides (the Clomid Crazies).

Appreciate the reply!

Yes, i have read about Clomid and the two do look much of a muchness. The only reason i asked about Enclo is that nearly every ”research” piece i have seen sets them against each other, and Enclo comes out slightly ahead in most of them. Did Clomid give you any trouble with temper? I clearly need to read up more on Clomid now .

 

[rixsternaz]

At under 40 years of age, i would give enclomiphene serious thought before going anywhere near TRT. It works better in younger men, and the success rates reported for men under 40 back that up.

I do not know where your weight sits right now, but if you are carrying extra, i would make fat loss the first priority - abdominal fat above all. Cleaning up the diet and going ketogenic could help you drop weight, and that in turn tends to improve hormones and general health. Lifestyle comes before TRT in most cases: food, body weight, training and sleep.

 

[sfkid]

I agree - at your age TRT should be a last resort, not a starting point.

That said, the idea that pinning test once means pinning it forever is not accurate.

PCT, or post cycle therapy, exists precisely to bring your own production back.

Enclomiphene is one of the main pieces of a PCT, and paired with HCG it can restore normal production.

Enclomiphene ought to be the first thing you try, and see how you respond.

 

[Pocket]

Wenjo said:

Pocket said:

I am in much the same position. My labs came back with test inside the normal range, but right at the bottom of it. Years ago, when my ex and I were trying for a kid, a doctor put me on clomid (he wanted to supercharge the baby maker and rule me out as the problem) and I did fine on it, so I picked up some clomid again hoping to lift my test that way. I have not tried enclo yet, but from what I have read and from other people accounts it is Clomid minus the possible mood sides. Once my current Clomid supply runs out, I intend to get Enclo.

Overall, if Enclo is available to you, take it. If it is not, Clomid is worth considering - just keep an eye on the mood sides (the Clomid Crazies).

Appreciate the reply!

Yes, i have read about Clomid and the two do look much of a muchness. The only reason i asked about Enclo is that nearly every ”research” piece i have seen sets them against each other, and Enclo comes out slightly ahead in most of them. Did Clomid give you any trouble with temper? I clearly need to read up more on Clomid now .

Thankfully the clomid crazies have not hit me. I am on a smaller dose partly to keep it that way.

 

[CMA Pooky]

Pocket said:

Wenjo said:

Pocket said:

I am in much the same position. My labs came back with test inside the normal range, but right at the bottom of it. Years ago, when my ex and I were trying for a kid, a doctor put me on clomid (he wanted to supercharge the baby maker and rule me out as the problem) and I did fine on it, so I picked up some clomid again hoping to lift my test that way. I have not tried enclo yet, but from what I have read and from other people accounts it is Clomid minus the possible mood sides. Once my current Clomid supply runs out, I intend to get Enclo.

Overall, if Enclo is available to you, take it. If it is not, Clomid is worth considering - just keep an eye on the mood sides (the Clomid Crazies).

Appreciate the reply!

Yes, i have read about Clomid and the two do look much of a muchness. The only reason i asked about Enclo is that nearly every ”research” piece i have seen sets them against each other, and Enclo comes out slightly ahead in most of them. Did Clomid give you any trouble with temper? I clearly need to read up more on Clomid now .

Thankfully the clomid crazies have not hit me. I am on a smaller dose partly to keep it that way.

Which dose did you settle on?

 

[Abrakebabra]

Test levels are only one biomarker, and that is all you have mentioned so far. Nothing about symptoms. Plenty of people sit at 13nmol/l and feel and function perfectly well. Do not get obsessed chasing numbers - aim to resolve symptoms.

 

[Pocket]

CMA Pooky said:

Pocket said:

Wenjo said:

Pocket said:

I am in much the same position. My labs came back with test inside the normal range, but right at the bottom of it. Years ago, when my ex and I were trying for a kid, a doctor put me on clomid (he wanted to supercharge the baby maker and rule me out as the problem) and I did fine on it, so I picked up some clomid again hoping to lift my test that way. I have not tried enclo yet, but from what I have read and from other people accounts it is Clomid minus the possible mood sides. Once my current Clomid supply runs out, I intend to get Enclo.

Overall, if Enclo is available to you, take it. If it is not, Clomid is worth considering - just keep an eye on the mood sides (the Clomid Crazies).

Appreciate the reply!

Yes, i have read about Clomid and the two do look much of a muchness. The only reason i asked about Enclo is that nearly every ”research” piece i have seen sets them against each other, and Enclo comes out slightly ahead in most of them. Did Clomid give you any trouble with temper? I clearly need to read up more on Clomid now .

Thankfully the clomid crazies have not hit me. I am on a smaller dose partly to keep it that way.

Which dose did you settle on?

Right now it is 12.5mg, taken twice a week. That will not move my numbers fast, but a slow and steady climb is fine by me.

 

[Wenjo]

rixsternaz said:

At under 40 years of age, i would give enclomiphene serious thought before going anywhere near TRT. It works better in younger men, and the success rates reported for men under 40 back that up.

I do not know where your weight sits right now, but if you are carrying extra, i would make fat loss the first priority - abdominal fat above all. Cleaning up the diet and going ketogenic could help you drop weight, and that in turn tends to improve hormones and general health. Lifestyle comes before TRT in most cases: food, body weight, training and sleep.

I am 95kg at 1,85m right now. Some of that came on after a spineoperation that kept me out of the gym completely for several months, though i have been back at it for a month. I used to sit at 92-93, but with more muscle and less fat than now ofc..

 

[Wenjo]

Abrakebabra said:

Test levels are only one biomarker, and that is all you have mentioned so far. Nothing about symptoms. Plenty of people sit at 13nmol/l and feel and function perfectly well. Do not get obsessed chasing numbers - aim to resolve symptoms.

Getting back to training after surgery has been the hard part, and i never had that issue before since i have always been active.

These days i sleep badly, and at the gym i am working with maybe 3/4 of the weight i used to move. I know Reta and a calorie deficit matter a lot, but i simply felt off and weak. Which is why i had bloodwork done.

 

[Tbagger]

Like everyone else is saying, staying off TRT at your age is the better call if it is possible. That said, sometimes it is not possible if you want to feel decent. I gave it 2 years of trying to lift my testosterone naturally and got nowhere. I took my BF% from 45% down to 15%. I switched to a healthy diet. I quit drinking. I was training 5 days a week. I ran through a pile of natural boosters like Mars Men. I tried kisspeptin. None of it helped. My test went from 320 to 340 lmao. Then I tried enclomiphene. Total test did climb to around 550, but my shbg shot up while free test and E2 tanked. I felt worse than before. My Dr just told me some people react oddly and left it at that. So after exhausting everything I could think of (I did not know about HCG back then) I gave up and hopped on TRT. Best decision I have ever made in my life.

 

[Tbagger]

People keep bringing up the mental side effects of clomid and enclomiphene. What gets mentioned less is that it can also affect your vision. So go carefully and titrate upward slowly until you feel better. And keep getting labs drawn often.

 

[quicksilver80]

The one thing that puts me off grey enclo is that it may be (allegedly, in indiamart case ) just clomid. Or a blend of the two. Someone over on pc was working up third party testing for algo, umbrella, kimera and swiss. Not enough time has passed yet. That is the single thing keeping me from pulling the trigger. Clomid sides are crap by comparison, so i am holding out for more word on it.

 

[JD45]

quicksilver80 said:

The one thing that puts me off grey enclo is that it may be (allegedly, in indiamart case ) just clomid. Or a blend of the two. Someone over on pc was working up third party testing for algo, umbrella, kimera and swiss. Not enough time has passed yet. That is the single thing keeping me from pulling the trigger. Clomid sides are crap by comparison, so i am holding out for more word on it.

Having been on Clomid before, i could not agree more. I am on Enclo now from a source i trust, and it is nothing like Clomid was.

 

[Llanitox]

Not one Indian vendor carries real enclo - it is clomid, so be careful.

I have been running clomid alongside hcg. My test is low too, though that comes from anabolic use. I have now added kisspeptin10, which may be worth a look for you. It lifts your own test production by as much as 25%

 

[Wenjo]

JD45 said:

quicksilver80 said:

The one thing that puts me off grey enclo is that it may be (allegedly, in indiamart case ) just clomid. Or a blend of the two. Someone over on pc was working up third party testing for algo, umbrella, kimera and swiss. Not enough time has passed yet. That is the single thing keeping me from pulling the trigger. Clomid sides are crap by comparison, so i am holding out for more word on it.

Having been on Clomid before, i could not agree more. I am on Enclo now from a source i trust, and it is nothing like Clomid was.

I have been reading up on Clomid since the first replies in this thread. Mood problems seem to come up? What else did you notice?

I checked my usual peptide source and Clomid costs barely half of enclo. Everything i have read over the past few days suggests paying the difference is worth it for enclo.

 

[Skidude]

Wenjo said:

JD45 said:

quicksilver80 said:

The one thing that puts me off grey enclo is that it may be (allegedly, in indiamart case ) just clomid. Or a blend of the two. Someone over on pc was working up third party testing for algo, umbrella, kimera and swiss. Not enough time has passed yet. That is the single thing keeping me from pulling the trigger. Clomid sides are crap by comparison, so i am holding out for more word on it.

Having been on Clomid before, i could not agree more. I am on Enclo now from a source i trust, and it is nothing like Clomid was.

I have been reading up on Clomid since the first replies in this thread. Mood problems seem to come up? What else did you notice?

I checked my usual peptide source and Clomid costs barely half of enclo. Everything i have read over the past few days suggests paying the difference is worth it for enclo.

This one is worth a read

Both have their upsides and downsides




Efficacy of Clomiphene Citrate Versus Enclomiphene Citrate for Male Infertility Treatment: A Retrospective Study - PMC



Introduction Male infertility and hypogonadism can weigh heavily on reproductive health and general well-being. Because giving testosterone from outside for hypogonadism can interfere with the hormonal cascade the body needs to ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JD45]

Llanitox said:

Not one Indian vendor carries real enclo - it is clomid, so be careful.

I have been running clomid alongside hcg. My test is low too, though that comes from anabolic use. I have now added kisspeptin10, which may be worth a look for you. It lifts your own test production by as much as 25%

Funny thing is, i was looking at Kisspeptin only minutes ago. As i understand it, the point is boosting sex drive, which it does by raising particular test levels. I have a solid vendor for Enclo. It runs $80 a bottle and a bottle lasts me a month. What i am starting to suspect, though, is that it gives me some lethargy roughly an hour after dosing. Tomorrow i will skip it and see how i feel.

 

[jailbird]

I am 46. At 44-45 i spent about a year on TRT, and my levels came up to where they should be, but estrogen ran a little high and i broke out badly on my chest. Then i moved and switched over to Enclomiphene. My levels needed roughly 6-8 months to climb again, but they are good now and i have NO side effects any more. It also worked out slightly cheaper ($150/mn against $50/week [$216/mn] on TRT). The catch: i could pay for TRT with my FSA card, but the insurer classes Enclomiphene as a fertility drug, so my FSA is off limits.