Flash-BCR
Explorer
Good venting.... 
If a group test uncovers a product issue, what then?
- Thread starter Kitty Paws
- Start date
Airborne Daddy
Explorer
Supposed to stay off alcohol Monday through Friday, but I stumbled and blacked out, and when I woke up my dog was telling me, you've gotta give this brandy a shot...... I'm going to take that post down and just admit I'm fed up with all these vendors racking up multiple fails, plus gb having to yank something from the list or hand out refunds, not to mention 3rd party tests that keep contradicting what the vendor coa's say....
Flash-BCR
Explorer
I had planned to have that entire passage up there inked onto my chest, purely for the hell of it...But the tattoo guy quoted me "$22 per word," and honestly, I'm no good at that sort of arithmetic, and my wallet isn't either, so instead I went and grabbed a beer at the place next door, and that hit the spot...
Airborne Daddy
Explorer
Because of my OCD, I'll tally every single word, times it by 22, add tax and tip, then after all that effort, round it off to the closest dollar and sit tight while around 80 people reply with the WRONG amount. You're 39 cents short. According to my people tracker, you're at the Suffrin Bastard in Co. Springs... in the same plaza as Nells Diner.
Flash-BCR
Explorer
Once I got through the opening half of that first sentence, I genuinely laughed out loud... Just like 'ms random', count me in for your newsletter... I've got crypto on hand, and I'm not scared to, "send it"...
RetCurious
Explorer
Which GB are you talking about? Say who they are.
Those fight club rules shield the people running things, not the ones they set against one another to make money.
RetCurious
Explorer
Some groups have done this and still do, but that doesn't apply across the board, and treating it as a catch-all safeguard is a mistake. When it comes to encouraging harm reduction, STG outperforms nearly every platform I've used, and its general guidance covers how testing groups should operate. However, those groups run their own affairs privately, outside STG's reach, and whatever occurs beyond STG opens up an entirely separate set of problems. Vendor infiltrators have been known to seize control of groups and steer the outcomes. The manipulation can happen either through picking which samples get submitted or through selecting the lab that does the testing, but either way the final results end up skewed to benefit the vendor.
HereKittyKitty
Explorer
The participants put it to a vote. Whether it gets disclosed hinges on what the group decides.
Usually, when an issue comes up, the group will go ahead and release it. And if you go against the group's consensus about disclosure, you can count on being barred from taking part in future test groups.
No matter how any vote turns out, someone in the group who has a working conscience will frequently leak an unfavorable result. They find the notion of keeping back information that might spare others from harm repugnant.
RetCurious
Explorer
After going through the vendor review rules, I can't really figure out how they'd fit here. If anything, my own take is that it would fall under vendor scams, though it's possible I'm just misreading things. And calling group buys "vendors" feels like a bit of a stretch to me.Jfrick11 said:
Conceptually, I don't have a problem with it... I held back because it seems to fall under the Vendor Review category of rules, and getting put in time out because of that would really stink
If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate some clarification on this.
BrightCandle
Explorer
From where we sit, Group Buys count as vendors. They move product to a large customer base, so the same pressure to produce favorable test results exists, since a failed test — endos especially — can cost them heavily if they won't replace or reship. Trust isn't warranted. What gives a handful of them some credibility is a track record: multiple runs completed, negative COAs made public, and problems actually addressed. Even so, every one of them has eventually burned their buyers, and once they scale up they frequently morph into exit scams.RetCurious said:
After going through the vendor review rules, I can't really figure out how they'd fit here. If anything, my own take is that it would fall under vendor scams, though it's possible I'm just misreading things. And calling group buys "vendors" feels like a bit of a stretch to me.Jfrick11 said:
Conceptually, I don't have a problem with it... I held back because it seems to fall under the Vendor Review category of rules, and getting put in time out because of that would really stink
If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate some clarification on this.
On the GLP1F side, though, I don't see where Group Buy reviews fit. My guess is the vendor section wouldn't take them either. Management is the right people to ask about that — it isn't as if the vendor reviews area is currently flooded with posts.
RetCurious
Explorer
Did BAC have a role in this?
I don't think it's accurate to describe Group Buy Organizers as middle men connecting customers to vendors (and vendors are themselves middle men connecting to manufacturers). In the horse world, someone in that position would be known as a dealer — a person who brings together those looking to sell horses and those looking to buy them.BrightCandle said:
From where we sit, Group Buys count as vendors. They move product to a large customer base, so the same pressure to produce favorable test results exists, since a failed test — endos especially — can cost them heavily if they won't replace or reship. Trust isn't warranted. What gives a handful of them some credibility is a track record: multiple runs completed, negative COAs made public, and problems actually addressed. Even so, every one of them has eventually burned their buyers, and once they scale up they frequently morph into exit scams.RetCurious said:
After going through the vendor review rules, I can't really figure out how they'd fit here. If anything, my own take is that it would fall under vendor scams, though it's possible I'm just misreading things. And calling group buys "vendors" feels like a bit of a stretch to me.Jfrick11 said:
Conceptually, I don't have a problem with it... I held back because it seems to fall under the Vendor Review category of rules, and getting put in time out because of that would really stink
If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate some clarification on this.
On the GLP1F side, though, I don't see where Group Buy reviews fit. My guess is the vendor section wouldn't take them either. Management is the right people to ask about that — it isn't as if the vendor reviews area is currently flooded with posts.
A lot of group buy organizers happen to sell retail product too, so they are vendors in that sense as well. That, however, is separate from the function they perform as a Group Promotion Vendor for discounted products.
Shittersfull
Explorer
In my opinion, certain group buys amount to vendors dumping defective stock. They back it with fabricated positive test results. After that, they vanish. Then they relaunch under a different name.
In my view, the frequency of this occurring is lower than many assume.
Personally, before taking part in a GB, I join the community first and look into how previous GBs played out, among other things.
Looking back through the history, nearly every group buy ends up with SOMETHING going wrong at least some of the time. Maybe a shipment never goes out, or a test doesn't pass, or some other issue. The way a Group Promotion Vendor deals with that situation strongly influences whether I'll join their next buy.
Even so, risk is always present. Only put in what you can afford to lose if everything falls apart.
BNLFL
Explorer
No, they aren't. How many have you actually purchased from?BrightCandle said:
From where we sit, Group Buys count as vendors. They move product to a large customer base, so the same pressure to produce favorable test results exists, since a failed test — endos especially — can cost them heavily if they won't replace or reship. Trust isn't warranted. What gives a handful of them some credibility is a track record: multiple runs completed, negative COAs made public, and problems actually addressed. Even so, every one of them has eventually burned their buyers, and once they scale up they frequently morph into exit scams.RetCurious said:
After going through the vendor review rules, I can't really figure out how they'd fit here. If anything, my own take is that it would fall under vendor scams, though it's possible I'm just misreading things. And calling group buys "vendors" feels like a bit of a stretch to me.Jfrick11 said:
Conceptually, I don't have a problem with it... I held back because it seems to fall under the Vendor Review category of rules, and getting put in time out because of that would really stink
If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate some clarification on this.
On the GLP1F side, though, I don't see where Group Buy reviews fit. My guess is the vendor section wouldn't take them either. Management is the right people to ask about that — it isn't as if the vendor reviews area is currently flooded with posts.
Can you point to even 1 that has done that, or is that just something you came across online? Same question for you: how many have you bought from?
ZippityDooDah
Explorer
I'd really like to hear how you figure they aren't vendors.BNLFL said:
No, they aren't. How many have you actually purchased from?BrightCandle said:
From where we sit, Group Buys count as vendors. They move product to a large customer base, so the same pressure to produce favorable test results exists, since a failed test — endos especially — can cost them heavily if they won't replace or reship. Trust isn't warranted. What gives a handful of them some credibility is a track record: multiple runs completed, negative COAs made public, and problems actually addressed. Even so, every one of them has eventually burned their buyers, and once they scale up they frequently morph into exit scams.RetCurious said:
After going through the vendor review rules, I can't really figure out how they'd fit here. If anything, my own take is that it would fall under vendor scams, though it's possible I'm just misreading things. And calling group buys "vendors" feels like a bit of a stretch to me.Jfrick11 said:
Conceptually, I don't have a problem with it... I held back because it seems to fall under the Vendor Review category of rules, and getting put in time out because of that would really stink
If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate some clarification on this.
On the GLP1F side, though, I don't see where Group Buy reviews fit. My guess is the vendor section wouldn't take them either. Management is the right people to ask about that — it isn't as if the vendor reviews area is currently flooded with posts.
Can you point to even 1 that has done that, or is that just something you came across online? Same question for you: how many have you bought from?
Am I right to assume they're 100% open about the money, let outside independent parties arrange the testing, pick who donates vials, and so on?
Shittersfull
Explorer
As I already said, "Imo" stands for in my opinion.BNLFL said:
No, they aren't. How many have you actually purchased from?BrightCandle said:
From where we sit, Group Buys count as vendors. They move product to a large customer base, so the same pressure to produce favorable test results exists, since a failed test — endos especially — can cost them heavily if they won't replace or reship. Trust isn't warranted. What gives a handful of them some credibility is a track record: multiple runs completed, negative COAs made public, and problems actually addressed. Even so, every one of them has eventually burned their buyers, and once they scale up they frequently morph into exit scams.RetCurious said:
After going through the vendor review rules, I can't really figure out how they'd fit here. If anything, my own take is that it would fall under vendor scams, though it's possible I'm just misreading things. And calling group buys "vendors" feels like a bit of a stretch to me.Jfrick11 said:
Conceptually, I don't have a problem with it... I held back because it seems to fall under the Vendor Review category of rules, and getting put in time out because of that would really stink
If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate some clarification on this.
On the GLP1F side, though, I don't see where Group Buy reviews fit. My guess is the vendor section wouldn't take them either. Management is the right people to ask about that — it isn't as if the vendor reviews area is currently flooded with posts.
Can you point to even 1 that has done that, or is that just something you came across online? Same question for you: how many have you bought from?
I'm not claiming this is a fact, and it isn't something I'm saying I saw with my own eyes.
On top of that, I haven't done any reading on it.
Honestly, I can't figure out any method to confirm something like this actually occurred, short of the individual responsible coming forward and saying so.
It adds up though. A bad batch gets produced, and that's just something that happens sometimes. Ideally, someone catches it before it goes out and it gets thrown away. But that isn't how every person or company operates. A few years back in the usa, baby formula became impossible to find, because bad product had been shipped by the makers. If your only option is to move it quickly, ahead of any 3rd party testing results, what's the smartest move?
Perhaps my view is different from most, since I'm acquainted with a lot of folks in medicine and I'm aware of the sorts of things that go on, every day.
Also, my wife was directly harmed by a nurse who deliberately gave her contaminated medician. She came very close to dying. Through all of that, I ended up learning things I'd rather not have known.
Why don't more people arrive at this same conclusion? It's hard for me to grasp.
As for what you asked: I've been part of 2 gb. Both happened quite recently.