If a group test uncovers a product issue, what then?

When it comes to M&P, the vendor will send a replacement. But for sterility or endotoxins, there’s little recourse. I’ve watched groups attempt to secure refunds, yet the majority of vendors offer no guarantee on sterility or endotoxins. Typically, groups also hold a vote on whether to make the results public or keep them within the group. In most groups I’ve been part of, sterility or endotoxin failures are shared so that everyone is aware that batch has problems.
 
The reputable vendors admit it, and then the supplier ships replacement product. I once had an R60 that was underfilled by 5mg, and they refunded us $15 for each kit. Since I had 4 kits, that came to $60.
 
When a vendor resolves the issue, groups typically keep M&P failures under wraps—there's no point in damaging their standing with the supplier. But if an endotoxin result comes back as hazardous, the majority of groups will disclose that to everyone.
 
Kitty Paws said:

Would they tell all of us, or stay silent?
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In most cases, groups hold a vote before deciding to make results public. What counts as an acceptable endotoxin level differs from person to person. Vendors typically provide guarantees for mass and purity, but those values may shift based on which laboratory performs the testing.
 
It depends on the group. A few believe staying quiet gives them leverage in talks, while others feel that going public provides some shelter for the community and the group, and keeps other people from getting hurt. In any case, the outcome rests entirely with the vendor. They routinely fail to honor their promises or won't act on unsafe endo levels, and you have no recourse. You'll also discover that other buyers simply don't care — 75% of them will continue purchasing from that same vendor. The groups that supposedly strike those vendors from their lists won't do it, and any negative review you post gets taken down, and so on.

A 2000s film titled the Beach, starring Leonardo, illustrates this pattern nicely. In one scene, someone gets bitten by a shark and is seriously wounded. Bringing in medical help would reveal their trespassing and destroy their vacation, so they let the person lie there screaming in agony for a few days, until everyone tires of them spoiling the trip and they kill them.

That's the reality when your group test comes back bad: you lose your money. The main takeaway is don't scream — you're supposed to get scammed in silence, and at most say "that is gray".
 
I participated in a GB, and the endos came back failing while pH tested high..... No disclosure came from the people running it, and their advice was that we could sell off our products if that didn't sit right with us.
 
Turbo-Farmer said:

Kitty Paws said:

Would they tell all of us, or stay silent?
Click to expand...
In most cases, groups hold a vote before deciding to make results public. What counts as an acceptable endotoxin level differs from person to person. Vendors typically provide guarantees for mass and purity, but those values may shift based on which laboratory performs the testing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in the group they stay silent about it. I've always kept copies of every test.
 
Kitty Paws said:

Would they tell all of us, or stay silent?
Click to expand...
From what I've noticed, they generally give everyone a heads-up as a courtesy. Sort of like a public service announcement
 
The answer really hinges on who supplied it. If you're dealing with a decent seller, they'll try their best to make things right. But a lot rides on where they sourced it from. This exact situation is unfolding right now in a group I belong to. The initial batch wasn't swapped out or money returned. As a result, they're covering the cost of replacements themselves. Then the same issue cropped up with the one beginning with an E (my mind just went blank, sorry! 🤣) and now they're locked in a dispute with the supplier (I keep mixing up whether that's the actual manufacturer, but it seems like it's stuck). The group's admin can't absorb yet another loss by paying for fixes out of their own pocket.

Apologies if this reply came out a bit jumbled. My head's not in the game today.
 
Jfrick11 said:

I participated in a GB, and the endos came back failing while pH tested high..... No disclosure came from the people running it, and their advice was that we could sell off our products if that didn't sit right with us.
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I'm curious how many people who bought just turned around and sold it off to somebody else . . . handing the risk along. "This stuff is way too strong for me, but hey, what they don't know won't hurt them." Would you guess 75%?

As I find out more about GBs, my attitude has shifted further and further away from FOMO and toward "no, thanks!"
 
Some groups might put out a product that carries possible risks — for instance elevated endotoxins, or nothing at all, or something entirely unlike what the label claims.
 
Derby said:

Some groups might put out a product that carries possible risks — for instance elevated endotoxins, or nothing at all, or something entirely unlike what the label claims.
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Yep, that's exactly how it should work. Whenever testing turns up something that could put the community at risk, the longstanding and strongly held norm here is to get the word out right away. As @Derby points out, that covers cases like very high endos, peptides that are completely absent, peptides that aren't what they're supposed to be, and so on.

Failed sterility has been shared by a few groups, but right now sterility testing is quite rare and no vendor promises sterility, so my guess is that far more would come back failing than what we actually see if testing were done more often.

And if an eloralintide test came back with a failed NMR, my expectation would be that this gets shared as well, and without delay.
 
Grogu said:

Derby said:

Some groups might put out a product that carries possible risks — for instance elevated endotoxins, or nothing at all, or something entirely unlike what the label claims.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's exactly how it should work. Whenever testing turns up something that could put the community at risk, the longstanding and strongly held norm here is to get the word out right away. As @Derby points out, that covers cases like very high endos, peptides that are completely absent, peptides that aren't what they're supposed to be, and so on.

Failed sterility has been shared by a few groups, but right now sterility testing is quite rare and no vendor promises sterility, so my guess is that far more would come back failing than what we actually see if testing were done more often.

And if an eloralintide test came back with a failed NMR, my expectation would be that this gets shared as well, and without delay.
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But testing was never done at all, particularly for Endo. That part is quite recent.
 
At least 2 buys, plus other threads, have shown me that the elantoritide is garbage. If you're considering purchasing right now, I'd hold off.
 
Kitty Paws said:

Would they tell all of us, or stay silent?
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When you say "group," if that refers to a testing group, typically the participants cast votes to decide.

If instead "group" means people purchasing via someone who is running the buy, then check the buy description. All the details you need should be there. If something is missing, reach out to the organizer.
 
HereKittyKitty said:

Kitty Paws said:

Would they tell all of us, or stay silent?
Click to expand...
When you say "group," if that refers to a testing group, typically the participants cast votes to decide.

If instead "group" means people purchasing via someone who is running the buy, then check the buy description. All the details you need should be there. If something is missing, reach out to the organizer.
Click to expand...
What I'm asking about is testing groups set up around specific batches. I'm part of one right now, and it got me thinking: if something questionable shows up, how is that normally handled? Personally, I'd tell everyone right away, but I'm not actually sure what the usual practice is in these groups.
 
AngieHolmes said:

Jfrick11 said:

I participated in a GB, and the endos came back failing while pH tested high..... No disclosure came from the people running it, and their advice was that we could sell off our products if that didn't sit right with us.
Click to expand...
I'm curious how many people who bought just turned around and sold it off to somebody else . . . handing the risk along. "This stuff is way too strong for me, but hey, what they don't know won't hurt them." Would you guess 75%?

As I find out more about GBs, my attitude has shifted further and further away from FOMO and toward "no, thanks!"
Click to expand...
That shift in perspective strikes me as quite reasonable. In the past, the appeal for me came from all the testing that came bundled in.... These days, I don't trust anything unless I've put it together on my own.
 
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