HGH or Tesa or CJC/Ipa

[jimmyjames01]

Male, 38, roughly 2 years of consistent gym training.

Currently about 6 weeks into Reta, weight is down to 81kg, body fat somewhere in the 12-15% range.

Now I'm looking to stack additional peptides to help build lean muscle.

Given my age, would microdosing HGH be the better call, or should I simply add tesa or CJC/Ipa into my existing daily peptide routine?

Anyone running HGH - what's your microdose per day?

 

[Smiter]

jimmyjames01 said:

Male, 38, roughly 2 years of consistent gym training.

Currently about 6 weeks into Reta, weight is down to 81kg, body fat somewhere in the 12-15% range.

Now I'm looking to stack additional peptides to help build lean muscle.

Given my age, would microdosing HGH be the better call, or should I simply add tesa or CJC/Ipa into my existing daily peptide routine?

Anyone running HGH - what's your microdose per day?

Neither option. If that body fat percentage satisfies you and your only aim is adding lean muscle, then GH along with its secretagogues won't get you there. Alternative approaches exist, and the right one shifts based on your objectives, limitations, how much you're prepared to spend, and similar factors.

 

[jimmyjames01]

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

 

[5byfive]

No peptide delivers meaningful muscle growth. The benefit is on the order of creatine, not steroids. At best you might see a tiny bump, and it would be nearly impossible to quantify. HGH could contribute slightly more, yet if you are not deficient, low doses likely accomplish little, and once you increase the dose, the side effects turn quite unpleasant.

I would say there are no short cuts, but there are, they are called steriods, and they ain't great for ya. After 2 years of serious training, the beginner gains are behind you and progress comes down to grinding. Realistically that means 2-5 lbs of muscle per year, though it accumulates over time. Stay consistent with training and you will get there.

 

[Smiter]

PEG-MGF, follistatin, epicatechin, and a clen combo are other options too. Once I hit my Reta maintenance dose, I'll be using that stack myself. After that, I'll add creatine, whey protein alpha, Myotor and velositol, plus glutamine. Testagen and enclomiphene are also worth considering.

 

[Tattoo85]

jimmyjames01 said:

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

When you say micro dosing, are you talking about standard TRT instead of "TRT+"? I wouldn't go below a TRT dose and take the chance of suppressing my own natural production.

 

[Gr33dyOctopus]

Tattoo85 said:

jimmyjames01 said:

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

When you say micro dosing, are you talking about standard TRT instead of "TRT+"? I wouldn't go below a TRT dose and take the chance of suppressing my own natural production.

I figured the same thing—nobody takes tiny amounts of testosterone, it's all or nothing haha

 

[mybodyisasewer]

If you're staying away from steroids, HGH is likely your strongest choice. You need a high dose—not 1-2iu, but closer to 4-6iu, depending on how well you tolerate sides. The hardest part is dealing with water retention and the joint pain that comes with it, though plenty of people handle it fine.

Microdosing is pointless—it only shuts down your own production and substitutes it, so you've paid for nothing.

For me, HGH works because it supports recomp: I can add strength and muscle gradually without putting on too much fat. It also makes cutting efficient by holding onto muscle while I lose weight. Over the long haul—think years—it will noticeably change your body composition. In the short run, you just have to trust the process and stay consistent.

 

[birdwhacker]

HCG can be run at a sensible dosage for a limited stretch to raise your test while keeping your natural production intact. And should you ever start TRT, having prior experience with it would be useful. Around 125IU every other day. There are those who simply combine HCG with enclo and avoid TRT entirely, reaching 1000+ levels, though how they handle E2 is beyond me.

Keep in mind my knowledge of hormones is fairly limited, and HCG hasn't been clinically studied for this specific use.

 

[jimmyjames01]

Tattoo85 said:

jimmyjames01 said:

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

When you say micro dosing, are you talking about standard TRT instead of "TRT+"? I wouldn't go below a TRT dose and take the chance of suppressing my own natural production.

For my weekly testosterone enanthate intake, I'm aiming for 140 - 150mg, and I'll inject 20mg each day—that's the microdosing approach I was referring to.

 

[Gr33dyOctopus]

jimmyjames01 said:

Tattoo85 said:

jimmyjames01 said:

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

When you say micro dosing, are you talking about standard TRT instead of "TRT+"? I wouldn't go below a TRT dose and take the chance of suppressing my own natural production.

For my weekly testosterone enanthate intake, I'm aiming for 140 - 150mg, and I'll inject 20mg each day—that's the microdosing approach I was referring to.

By splitting your weekly dose into smaller portions, you're doing split dosing.

 

[Ticks]

That's a new one for me — I've never come across anyone claiming HGH is useless. If anything, what I usually hear is people talking it up for the way it reshapes your physique. My RS has had really solid outcomes running reta + tesa + eod trt.

 

[miameow]

At 38 you've still got plenty of runway, so if cost isn't a concern, secretagogues could be worth a shot — tesa in particular as a starting point. Personally I ran CJC no dac alongside Ipa, and honestly the ipa gave me nothing except intense hunger, even though I was already on a fairly hefty reta dose. Compared to any secretagogue, HGH is in a completely different league, though the difference hits harder when your igf is genuinely low and/or you're simply older.

That said, muscle growth isn't something any of these will deliver. What they can do is help you lean out and make the muscle you already have stand out more.

 

[DrPEPr]

miameow said:

At 38 you've still got plenty of runway, so if cost isn't a concern, secretagogues could be worth a shot — tesa in particular as a starting point. Personally I ran CJC no dac alongside Ipa, and honestly the ipa gave me nothing except intense hunger, even though I was already on a fairly hefty reta dose. Compared to any secretagogue, HGH is in a completely different league, though the difference hits harder when your igf is genuinely low and/or you're simply older.

That said, muscle growth isn't something any of these will deliver. What they can do is help you lean out and make the muscle you already have stand out more.

Well... men typically live to about 76 on average, so by that math he's already at the midpoint (coming from someone who's 46yo )

Tattoo85 said:

jimmyjames01 said:

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

When you say micro dosing, are you talking about standard TRT instead of "TRT+"? I wouldn't go below a TRT dose and take the chance of suppressing my own natural production.

For my weekly testosterone enanthate intake, I'm aiming for 140 - 150mg, and I'll inject 20mg each day—that's the microdosing approach I was referring to.

Right, that's what @Gr33dyOctopus was getting at — split dosing.

Have you gotten any labs done to check your current hormone panel (test as well as gh/igf1)?

My point is that pinning just 140-150 per week could leave you with the same test level you already have — maybe even lower. (I've seen numbers land between 600 - 900 on those amounts). In other words, you'd be disrupting your endocrine system for nothing.

And another thing...

2 years of gym time still puts you in beginner territory, with a ton of 'n00bGainz' left to tap. There's zero reason to bring in any compounds for muscle growth at this stage.

What I'd suggest:

Stay 'natty' and really commit for another 2-3 years, running a solid training plan plus a few (lean)bulk and cut cycles, then reassess.

 

[dancs]

jimmyjames01 said:

Male, 38, roughly 2 years of consistent gym training.

Currently about 6 weeks into Reta, weight is down to 81kg, body fat somewhere in the 12-15% range.

Now I'm looking to stack additional peptides to help build lean muscle.

Given my age, would microdosing HGH be the better call, or should I simply add tesa or CJC/Ipa into my existing daily peptide routine?

Anyone running HGH - what's your microdose per day?

We're the same age, man — 38! My stats are pretty close too: 205lbs, roughly 13% body fat. For the past 3 weeks I've been running Cjc/Ipa, and for about that same stretch IGF-1 LR3 as well, and honestly I can tell the difference — I'm holding onto lean mass better, recovering faster, and my body looks fuller.

I went deep into the research on HGH and Anavar (which is the weakest steroid and carries the least risk), and my honest take: if you're generally healthy and sitting where you are right now, skip the roids... at least for now. My strong advice is to do your due diligence before you take on something you may only know a little about. Some of the possible consequences can't be reversed... On top of that, anavar is the most counterfeited roid out there — plenty of products labeled anavar are actually watered-down dianobol or HCG/HGH blends.... If you do your research and decide to buy, source it from someone reputable OR from a place with a recent COA on hand. If it's janoshik (the gold standard), then verify on janoshik's site that the report is real and not copy/pasted or "edited".

For you, HGH would be the best route. It comes with a long list of benefits plus a few side effects, but proper dosing — low for the first couple weeks, then titrating slowly upward — should keep you fine. Worth knowing: real muscle gains won't show until you're at least a month in (HGH is a long-term commitment; 6-12 months). Early on you'll definitely feel better, sleep improves and recovery speeds up.

If faster results are what you want, then do what @Smiter suggests: PEG-MGF (targeted), IGF-1 LR3 (systemic) — but skip his approach with the other ones.

Tomorrow I begin HGH and start tapering off both CJC/IPA and IGF-1, fully stopping in about 2 weeks; HGH will take over completely. Each one works a bit differently, but like I said, for me safety beats risking everything.

My recommendation: get blood work done FIRST (fitomicslabs.com) so you know your current levels. Then run HGH at 1iu/day for 2-3 weeks to check tolerability, then titrate up by 1 every few weeks until you reach 4iu/day (the safer dosing). Go above 4 a day and the other side effects start creeping in.

If you want a reputable HGH source, Lobster. Or just DM me and I'll point you the right way.

 

[Smiter]

dancs said:

jimmyjames01 said:

Male, 38, roughly 2 years of consistent gym training.

Currently about 6 weeks into Reta, weight is down to 81kg, body fat somewhere in the 12-15% range.

Now I'm looking to stack additional peptides to help build lean muscle.

Given my age, would microdosing HGH be the better call, or should I simply add tesa or CJC/Ipa into my existing daily peptide routine?

Anyone running HGH - what's your microdose per day?

We're the same age, man — 38! My stats are pretty close too: 205lbs, roughly 13% body fat. For the past 3 weeks I've been running Cjc/Ipa, and for about that same stretch IGF-1 LR3 as well, and honestly I can tell the difference — I'm holding onto lean mass better, recovering faster, and my body looks fuller.

I went deep into the research on HGH and Anavar (which is the weakest steroid and carries the least risk), and my honest take: if you're generally healthy and sitting where you are right now, skip the roids... at least for now. My strong advice is to do your due diligence before you take on something you may only know a little about. Some of the possible consequences can't be reversed... On top of that, anavar is the most counterfeited roid out there — plenty of products labeled anavar are actually watered-down dianobol or HCG/HGH blends.... If you do your research and decide to buy, source it from someone reputable OR from a place with a recent COA on hand. If it's janoshik (the gold standard), then verify on janoshik's site that the report is real and not copy/pasted or "edited".

For you, HGH would be the best route. It comes with a long list of benefits plus a few side effects, but proper dosing — low for the first couple weeks, then titrating slowly upward — should keep you fine. Worth knowing: real muscle gains won't show until you're at least a month in (HGH is a long-term commitment; 6-12 months). Early on you'll definitely feel better, sleep improves and recovery speeds up.

If faster results are what you want, then do what @Smiter suggests: PEG-MGF (targeted), IGF-1 LR3 (systemic) — but skip his approach with the other ones.

Tomorrow I begin HGH and start tapering off both CJC/IPA and IGF-1, fully stopping in about 2 weeks; HGH will take over completely. Each one works a bit differently, but like I said, for me safety beats risking everything.

My recommendation: get blood work done FIRST (fitomicslabs.com) so you know your current levels. Then run HGH at 1iu/day for 2-3 weeks to check tolerability, then titrate up by 1 every few weeks until you reach 4iu/day (the safer dosing). Go above 4 a day and the other side effects start creeping in.

If you want a reputable HGH source, Lobster. Or just DM me and I'll point you the right way.

??????????? dancs, what's the reason? Why did you have to do me like that? After every one of these years, all the playboy we traded, every sheep we shagged, all the cops we drove nuts, and that one time a chick said she'd rather have my baby than yours, you go ballistic??? Bros before 304s, dude. It's a good thing you're gonna take HGH. You can finally grow up.

Oh yeah, IGF-LR is something I would never recommend, what I mentioned was IGF-DES

 

[jimmyjames01]

Thanks for everyone's input.

Bloodwork from 2 weeks back:

Free T - 369 pmo/L

T - 11 nmo/L

On the low side, but sadly not low enough that a doctor in Aus will prescribe TRT

 

[Smiter]

jimmyjames01 said:

Thanks for everyone's input.

Bloodwork from 2 weeks back:

Free T - 369 pmo/L

T - 11 nmo/L

On the low side, but sadly not low enough that a doctor in Aus will prescribe TRT

Head below the surface, mate—not to the southern hemisphere.

 

[Ticks]

DrPEPr said:

miameow said:

At 38 you've still got plenty of runway, so if cost isn't a concern, secretagogues could be worth a shot — tesa in particular as a starting point. Personally I ran CJC no dac alongside Ipa, and honestly the ipa gave me nothing except intense hunger, even though I was already on a fairly hefty reta dose. Compared to any secretagogue, HGH is in a completely different league, though the difference hits harder when your igf is genuinely low and/or you're simply older.

That said, muscle growth isn't something any of these will deliver. What they can do is help you lean out and make the muscle you already have stand out more.

Well... men typically live to about 76 on average, so by that math he's already at the midpoint (coming from someone who's 46yo )

Tattoo85 said:

jimmyjames01 said:

Besides going the route of strong anabolic steroids (though I am also attempting to start Trt, which would likewise only be a microdose), what other options might be superior? Cost is not a concern

When you say micro dosing, are you talking about standard TRT instead of "TRT+"? I wouldn't go below a TRT dose and take the chance of suppressing my own natural production.

For my weekly testosterone enanthate intake, I'm aiming for 140 - 150mg, and I'll inject 20mg each day—that's the microdosing approach I was referring to.

Right, that's what @Gr33dyOctopus was getting at — split dosing.

Have you gotten any labs done to check your current hormone panel (test as well as gh/igf1)?

My point is that pinning just 140-150 per week could leave you with the same test level you already have — maybe even lower. (I've seen numbers land between 600 - 900 on those amounts). In other words, you'd be disrupting your endocrine system for nothing.

And another thing...

2 years of gym time still puts you in beginner territory, with a ton of 'n00bGainz' left to tap. There's zero reason to bring in any compounds for muscle growth at this stage.

What I'd suggest:

Stay 'natty' and really commit for another 2-3 years, running a solid training plan plus a few (lean)bulk and cut cycles, then reassess.

Everyone has their own view, but that reasoning doesn't line up with what my RS and the people close to them have actually gone through. When your T isn't naturally where it should be and you're getting close to 40, even a modest weekly T dose of 140-150 can lift your levels by 2x or even 3x. Add in naturally low igf1 and your progress gets held back no matter what protocol you follow. Boosting your T output is definitely a long-term commitment, yet small amounts of supplementation won't wreck your endocrine system nearly as badly as mainstream media makes it sound. Going all in with huge doses is where you're playing with fire, but this whole thing is about optimization, and trt plus tesa can genuinely get your hormones dialed in. In my book, 2 years of serious effort isn't really a beginner either; I've watched people go from 0 to hero in that same stretch. Just my 2c

 

[jimmyjames01]

To clarify regarding those 2 years: weightlifting has actually been part of most of my life, though inconsistently. It is only the last 2 years that I have become more committed, and during the past year I have not skipped a single session, while keeping nutrition largely dialed in through both bulks and cuts.

For the last 4-5 months I have been stuck at a plateau that I cannot get past. My error was with Reta: I ran too much, too fast. That cost me significantly in weights and muscle, and I am now working to get it back.

That said, I would not describe myself as looking like a beginner lifter, and I definitely know my way around the gym. Anabolics are simply new territory for me.