Endotoxins…

[wileyhorse]

I’m wondering… I’m sure we all know about the endotoxin mess with T30 and a Chinese supplier. But something I haven’t seen brought up- did any of us actually become ill after using it? Or did we catch it in time before any harm was done?

 

[dgoldrich]

That batch gave me no problems at all.

 

[CNCCurrency]

wileyhorse said:

I’m wondering… I’m sure we all know about the endotoxin mess with T30 and a Chinese supplier. But something I haven’t seen brought up- did any of us actually become ill after using it? Or did we catch it in time before any harm was done?

As far as I know, nobody did. It took a while before anyone noticed.

 

[wileyhorse]

Another thing I'm wondering about… where did the idea to test for endos come from in the first place? Because COAs don't usually include it

 

[Dos-Dox]

wileyhorse said:

I’m wondering… I’m sure we all know about the endotoxin mess with T30 and a Chinese supplier. But something I haven’t seen brought up- did any of us actually become ill after using it? Or did we catch it in time before any harm was done?

Yep, there was at least 1 person here who became ill because of it. The discussion showing this can be found at:


/community-link/thread/9556/

 

[MG9550]

wileyhorse said:

Another thing I'm wondering about… where did the idea to test for endos come from in the first place? Because COAs don't usually include it

My understanding is that this came out of testing for a group buy, yet the findings were compelling enough that they chose to make them public.

 

[DoctaDave]

Based on my understanding, when endotoxin levels are low, the immune system's antibodies react to fragments of dead bacteria, producing inflammation confined to the area. The majority of contaminated peptides are in this range. With high levels, systemic inflammation or anaphylaxis becomes possible, though that requires a very large amount.

You shouldn't dismiss it, but a small exposure isn't the end of the world either. The dose is what determines the poison.

 

[wileyhorse]

dgoldrich said:

That batch gave me no problems at all.

Appreciate it. Across other forums, folks who are against compounds or against gray keep saying that “all these people getting sick from using non-fda approved drugs,” but I have yet to come across any proof at all that backs those statements. When this latest endotoxin mess happened, it got me thinking whether anyone actually did get sick. Up to now, the only thing I can locate is a single user comment in another thread mentioning that someone had a reaction.

 

[Grogu]

wileyhorse said:

dgoldrich said:

That batch gave me no problems at all.

Appreciate it. Across other forums, folks who are against compounds or against gray keep saying that “all these people getting sick from using non-fda approved drugs,” but I have yet to come across any proof at all that backs those statements. When this latest endotoxin mess happened, it got me thinking whether anyone actually did get sick. Up to now, the only thing I can locate is a single user comment in another thread mentioning that someone had a reaction.

Just because one person reported no issues with this batch doesn't mean we should take it as a reliable signal—though I'm not trying to dismiss what that user went through. I believe they really were okay.

From the LS Testing vendor:

Some anecdotal reports of rashes and increased heart rate from users. Endotoxins build up in the system so taking more will result in a worse effect.

It is the recommendation of LS Testing that anyone who has this batch purchased at around this time does not use it.

Click to expand...

/community-link/thread/14370/


I believe I've also come across reports of comparable reactions tied to this batch on different TG servers.

Why some individuals react and others don't has many possible explanations. Each person's immune system is distinct, and it's probably shaped by their prior contact with toxins. That means a given endotoxin load won't produce the same response in everyone. What seems more troubling, as I understand it, is that this batch was sold over an extended period with many orange-colored vial caps—some with ridges, some without. That makes me suspect certain kits may not have come from the same production run. On top of that, there's the question of consistency between vials within a single production run. With tens of thousands of vials in a run and only a small number tested, it's hard to generalize about the whole population from such limited samples.

 

[Frandroid]

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

 

[Airborne Daddy]

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

The one who said they'd begin endo testing was jeep. After doing a handful, they've gone back to f yall..

 

[eidos]

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

 

[Frandroid]

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

Sorry, I thought this thread was pretty recent. I'm new here and I'm going through a lot of material to learn.

 

[eidos]

Frandroid said:

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

Sorry, I thought this thread was pretty recent. I'm new here and I'm going through a lot of material to learn.

No worries at all.

Every one of us has been in that spot.

Starting a fresh thread with your questions will get you much more useful replies. If I hadn't linked the two comments you made today, I wouldn't have written back to you.

 

[Dos-Dox]

Frandroid said:

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

Sorry, I thought this thread was pretty recent. I'm new here and I'm going through a lot of material to learn.

Putting your question out there, or sharing your take inside this thread that already existed, was completely fine, because

1) it ties into what was already being discussed and

2) it demonstrates you're actually reading and hunting down information instead of launching a brand new, duplicate discussion.

Keeping related subjects grouped together, rather than scattering a pile of disconnected yet similar threads, is a method some of us value.

Opinions will vary from person to person, but that one is mine. Please don't let the criticism get you down. In this instance, I don't think it was warranted. Welcome to the forum!

 

[miameow]

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

eidos said:


If I hadn't made the connection between your two comments today, I wouldn't have replied to you.

Click to expand...

Ouch.. at least they didn’t open a whole new thread the way so many people do.

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Nothing wrong with your question, or with where you put it, @Frandroid - I thought it was a fair point.

Frandroid said:

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

Sorry, I thought this thread was pretty recent. I'm new here and I'm going through a lot of material to learn.

There was really no need to apologize.

 

[ThatNextGril]

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

Speaking only for myself, I’d rather see people add to a thread that’s already going when whatever they’re asking or saying fits the discussion. There are already plenty of fresh posts where a newcomer gets piled on with “just search for the thread that already exists” and similar.

Because of how this question was placed, I could simply scroll up a little and jog my memory without any trouble!

 

[Fostradamus]

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

People keep telling newcomers on this platform to search before posting questions or creating threads. A remark that snarky is completely uncalled for.

 

[Grogu]

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

When I think about endotoxins, I think about investing: what happened before doesn't tell you what will happen next.

After a problem, a supplier might tighten things up. Still, before I'd treat them as safer, I'd need to see proof that they actually fixed things and that later tests came back clean. And even with that, I seriously doubt any of the producers in this market are cGMP, so these aren't Big Pharma grade products. We aren't paying Big Pharma prices either.

A vendor stays good right up until it doesn't.

 

[indolent]

eidos said:

Frandroid said:

I've come across comments where folks say they're done buying from that particular vendor. Yet, given how much attention endotoxins are getting lately, wouldn't that company be hyper-vigilant about them—and therefore one of the safest choices out there?

Are you perhaps an archaeologist?

Rather than pulling up a thread that's long dead, why don't you start a fresh post for your questions?

The reason being that this platform is a forum for discussion, not a chatbot