Endotoxins…

wileyhorse

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I’m curious… certainly everyone is aware of the endotoxin fiasco involving T30 and a Chinese vendor. But one thing I have not seen mentioned- did anyone of us get sick from using the product? Or was it caught before it could cause damage?
 
wileyhorse said:


I’m curious… certainly everyone is aware of the endotoxin fiasco involving T30 and a Chinese vendor. But one thing I have not seen mentioned- did anyone of us get sick from using the product? Or was it caught before it could cause damage?

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Not anyone I can recall, it was not caught right away.
 
wileyhorse said:


But one thing I have not seen mentioned- did anyone of us get sick from using the product?

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Yes, at least one member on this forum got sick from it. See the thread trail here:


/community-link/thread/9556/
 
wileyhorse said:


So, another question… what inspired the original test for endos to begin with? Since it’s not regularly tested on the COAs

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I think it was part of a group buy testing but the results were so significant that they decided to share it publicly.
 
From what I understand. At low levels endotoxins cause local inflammation as your antibodies respond to the bits and chunks of dead bacteria. Most tainted peps fall into this category, at high levels you can get full body inflammation or anaphylaxis but that’s at very high level.

It’s not something to ignore but it’s also not a doomsday if you get a little bit. Dose makes the poison.
 
dgoldrich said:


I used the same batch and felt fine.

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Thanks for that. I keep hearing people in other forums who are anti- compound or anti - gray make comments about “all these people getting sick from using non-fda approved drugs”, yet i cannot find any evidence whatsoever to support their claims. This most recent endotoxin fiasco made me wonder if anyone HAD gotten sick. So far, I can only find one user comment in a separate thread about somebody having a reaction.
 
wileyhorse said:


Thanks for that. I keep hearing people in other forums who are anti- compound or anti - gray make comments about “all these people getting sick from using non-fda approved drugs”, yet i cannot find any evidence whatsoever to support their claims. This most recent endotoxin fiasco made me wonder if anyone HAD gotten sick. So far, I can only find one user comment in a separate thread about somebody having a reaction.

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I wouldn't rely too highly on one anectdotal account of being fine with this batch, not that I'm discounting that user's experience. I'm sure that they were fine.

From the LS Testing vendor:

Some anecdotal reports of rashes and increased heart rate from users. Endotoxins build up in the system so taking more will result in a worse effect.

It is the recommendation of LS Testing that anyone who has this batch purchased at around this time does not use it.

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/community-link/thread/14370/


I think I also read accounts of similar reactions to this batch on various TG servers.

Part of the issue, why some people might experience reactions while others will not are myriad. Everyone's immune system is unique to them and likely a culumination of past exposures to toxins. So, not everyone is going to have similar reactions when presented with a certain endotoxin load. More problematic, how I understand it, is that this batch was sold by over a long period of time with numerous orange colored vial caps. Some with ridges and some without ridges. Makes me think that some of the kits might have not been from the same production run. And then of course, there is the issue of intra-vial consistency within a production run. When we're talking tens of thousand of vials in a production run and we're only testing a handful, it's tough to draw conclusions on the population as a whole with such small samples.
 
Sometimes, I read that people do not want to order with that specific company anymore. But wouldn't they be extra aware of the endotoxins now, making them actually a very safe option?
 
Frandroid said:


Sometimes, I read that people do not want to order with that specific company anymore. But wouldn't they be extra aware of the endotoxins now, making them actually a very safe option?

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It was jeep, who promised to start running endo tests. They fid a few now theyre back to f yall..
 
Frandroid said:


Sometimes, I read that people do not want to order with that specific company anymore. But wouldn't they be extra aware of the endotoxins now, making them actually a very safe option?

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Are you an archaeologist?

Why not ask your questions in a new post instead of digging through an old thread?
 
eidos said:


Are you an archaeologist?

Why not ask your questions in a new post instead of digging through an old thread?

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Apologies, this seemed to be a fairly recent topic. I'm new to the forum, and I'm reading through a lot of information to educate myself.
 
Frandroid said:


Apologies, this seemed to be a fairly recent topic. I'm new to the forum, and I'm reading through a lot of information to educate myself.

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No problemo.

We've all been there.

You'll get better answers to your questions if you ask them in a new post. If I hadn't made the connection between your two comments today, I wouldn't have replied to you.
 
Frandroid said:


Apologies, this seemed to be a fairly recent topic. I'm new to the forum, and I'm reading through a lot of information to educate myself.

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There was nothing wrong with asking this question or stating your thoughts in this existing post as

1) it is relevant to the existing conversation and

2) shows that you are reading and searching for information rather than starting a new, redundant conversation.

Some of us appreciate that methodology of keeping relevant topics together rather than a bunch of disjointed but similar topics.

Everyone will have a different opinion, but that’s mine. Don’t let criticism discourage you. I don’t personally feel it was justified in this case. Welcome to the forum!
 
eidos said:


Are you an archaeologist?

Why not ask your questions in a new post instead of digging through an old thread?

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eidos said:


If I hadn't made the connection between your two comments today, I wouldn't have replied to you.

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Ouch.. at least they didn't start an entire new thread like a lot of people do.

Frandroid said:


Sometimes, I read that people do not want to order with that specific company anymore. But wouldn't they be extra aware of the endotoxins now, making them actually a very safe option?

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I don’t see anything wrong with your question or where you posted it, @Frandroid - I think it was a very valid point.

Frandroid said:


Apologies, this seemed to be a fairly recent topic. I'm new to the forum, and I'm reading through a lot of information to educate myself.

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You absolutely did not need to apologize.
 
eidos said:


Are you an archaeologist?

Why not ask your questions in a new post instead of digging through an old thread?

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Just my opinion, but I actually much prefer when folks respond to older threads when the new question or comment is relevant to it. We have enough "new" topics spun up where everyone jumps on the new member to "go find the existing thread" or such.

The question posted here made it very easy for me to scroll back a bit to refresh my memory!
 
eidos said:


Are you an archaeologist?

Why not ask your questions in a new post instead of digging through an old thread?

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New members on here are repeatedly told to use the search function before asking questions and starting new threads. There's absolutely no need for a snarky comment like that.
 
Frandroid said:


Sometimes, I read that people do not want to order with that specific company anymore. But wouldn't they be extra aware of the endotoxins now, making them actually a very safe option?

Click to expand...

Endotoxins remind me of investments: past performance is not indicative of future results.

A vendor may be more careful after an issue, but I’d want to see evidence of corrective action and clean follow-up testing before assuming they’re safer. And even then, I highly doubt that any of the manufacturers in this space are cGMP, so we're not dealing with Big Pharma grade products. We're not paying Big Pharma prices either.

Vendors are good until they are not.
 
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