Anavar together with TRT.

[Shittersfull]

I've been on trt for a number of months now. My strength is climbing, my body composition is shifting in a good direction, and I feel better overall. There's still fat I need to drop. My cardio and wieght training are coming together nicely. The testosterone has made that part easier. Because I have primary hypogonatism, test is something I'll be injecting for the rest of my life. I'm trying to educate myself, and it has completely reshaped my youtube algorithm. Lately I've been reading up on steroids, sarms, aromatese ihibitors,, hgh. Grey reta changed my life, and I'm more willing to try things I never would have considered before. It has also opened my eyes. Anavar, masteron, primo and hgh come up constantly. All this new info is overwhelming, and it all seams to come from users who are younger and not on ligit trt. Since I'll be injecting test for the rest of my life anyway, doesn't that cancel out a lot of the risk, or am I wrong? And can't the ldl, hdl, triglycerides be offset with reta, omega 3's, olive oil, ect.? It also sounds like the liver problems can be offset with TUDCA, milk thisle, red rice yeast, NAC and glutathione? Or am I wrong on this also? It sounds like low dose 6 week cycles of anavar, masteron or primo 2 times a year is pretty safe bet and could realy help maintain muscle into older age, am I wrong? I'm realy stupid when it comes to this stuff. I would love some feadback.

 

[HolyTrinity]

I've been running TRT, and during that time I've done several cycles of anavar at 20-40mg for 6-8 weeks. Each time, I waited 4-6 weeks after my last dose before getting blood work, and my cholesterol and other markers stayed in range. My LDL actually came down rather than crashing.

In my view the risk is fairly low, though whether to take it is up to each person.

Personally, I enjoyed it. The pumps were great and I felt fuller while taking it. It did help me add some muscle, though the effect is modest. I didn't experience any super human strength gains, maybe just slightly stronger. I still have a few hundred 10mg tabs and intend to run it again next summer.

My first time I used 20mg/a day, then 30mg-40mg/day on the following runs, but honestly I couldn't tell any extra benefit from the higher doses. If it's your first time, I'd begin low at 20mg and adjust from there.

I've also given Turinabol 2 tries. It's fine, but I found it hard to eat while on it, which made me think something wasn't right, and both times I put on 3-4 pounds in the first week, which had to be water…even though T-bol is supposed to be “dry.” Anavar is much better in my opinion.

 

[Shittersfull]

HolyTrinity said:

I've been running TRT, and during that time I've done several cycles of anavar at 20-40mg for 6-8 weeks. Each time, I waited 4-6 weeks after my last dose before getting blood work, and my cholesterol and other markers stayed in range. My LDL actually came down rather than crashing.

In my view the risk is fairly low, though whether to take it is up to each person.

Personally, I enjoyed it. The pumps were great and I felt fuller while taking it. It did help me add some muscle, though the effect is modest. I didn't experience any super human strength gains, maybe just slightly stronger. I still have a few hundred 10mg tabs and intend to run it again next summer.

My first time I used 20mg/a day, then 30mg-40mg/day on the following runs, but honestly I couldn't tell any extra benefit from the higher doses. If it's your first time, I'd begin low at 20mg and adjust from there.

I've also given Turinabol 2 tries. It's fine, but I found it hard to eat while on it, which made me think something wasn't right, and both times I put on 3-4 pounds in the first week, which had to be water…even though T-bol is supposed to be “dry.” Anavar is much better in my opinion.

I appreciate the response.

 

[Calm Logic]

Shittersfull said:

I've been on trt for a number of months now. My strength is climbing, my body composition is shifting in a good direction, and I feel better overall. There's still fat I need to drop. My cardio and wieght training are coming together nicely. The testosterone has made that part easier. Because I have primary hypogonatism, test is something I'll be injecting for the rest of my life. I'm trying to educate myself, and it has completely reshaped my youtube algorithm. Lately I've been reading up on steroids, sarms, aromatese ihibitors,, hgh. Grey reta changed my life, and I'm more willing to try things I never would have considered before. It has also opened my eyes. Anavar, masteron, primo and hgh come up constantly. All this new info is overwhelming, and it all seams to come from users who are younger and not on ligit trt. Since I'll be injecting test for the rest of my life anyway, doesn't that cancel out a lot of the risk, or am I wrong? And can't the ldl, hdl, triglycerides be offset with reta, omega 3's, olive oil, ect.? It also sounds like the liver problems can be offset with TUDCA, milk thisle, red rice yeast, NAC and glutathione? Or am I wrong on this also? It sounds like low dose 6 week cycles of anavar, masteron or primo 2 times a year is pretty safe bet and could realy help maintain muscle into older age, am I wrong? I'm realy stupid when it comes to this stuff. I would love some feadback.

That's the broscience take — the equivalent of claiming you can safely drink antifreeze as long as you chase it with some charcoal.

Because of the FDA, for the most part, a lot of burn units no longer reach for Anavar/oxandralone and have switched to testosterone instead.

 

[anhydrous]

Since competing isn't your goal, test plus a bigger food intake plus putting in the effort will likely cover all your bases. The advice I and plenty of other people would give is to remain at replacement level until you've cut your weight to a point where you're at ease with letting the number on the scale begin moving in the opposite direction.

 

[Abrakebabra]

What is the goal you have in mind with it? The way I see it, AAS only become something really worth looking at once everything else has been dialled in for years and you've reached roughly the limit of what you can do naturally. I'd also say that with steroids, a "pretty safe bet" doesn't exist. Even an oral that's considered "mild" will probably wreck your lipids and put stress on your liver. As for me, I haven't trained anywhere near hard enough or long enough to make them worth the risk - though I get that other people will see it differently.

 

[lessthanhalf]

A great deal hinges on what you're actually chasing here — is the aim long-term health, or is it appearance and strength? Near the end of your post you mention targeting replacement level TRT, and that's likely a good thing for long-term health. Once you push past that level, though, I believe the evidence is fairly unambiguous that risks appear, particularly cardiovascular ones over the long term (and psychiatric ones, which get discussed far less often). It's quite easy to get pulled into the reasoning behind AAS use — I've done some reading on the MESO forum, where almost everybody is using AAS to some extent, and the deeper you dig the more ordinary it starts to look. So the question that matters most is that first one: health, or strength and looks? That's what should guide how you weigh priorities against risks.

 

[gusterbuster]

Shittersfull said:

I've been on trt for a number of months now. My strength is climbing, my body composition is shifting in a good direction, and I feel better overall. There's still fat I need to drop. My cardio and wieght training are coming together nicely. The testosterone has made that part easier. Because I have primary hypogonatism, test is something I'll be injecting for the rest of my life. I'm trying to educate myself, and it has completely reshaped my youtube algorithm. Lately I've been reading up on steroids, sarms, aromatese ihibitors,, hgh. Grey reta changed my life, and I'm more willing to try things I never would have considered before. It has also opened my eyes. Anavar, masteron, primo and hgh come up constantly. All this new info is overwhelming, and it all seams to come from users who are younger and not on ligit trt. Since I'll be injecting test for the rest of my life anyway, doesn't that cancel out a lot of the risk, or am I wrong? And can't the ldl, hdl, triglycerides be offset with reta, omega 3's, olive oil, ect.? It also sounds like the liver problems can be offset with TUDCA, milk thisle, red rice yeast, NAC and glutathione? Or am I wrong on this also? It sounds like low dose 6 week cycles of anavar, masteron or primo 2 times a year is pretty safe bet and could realy help maintain muscle into older age, am I wrong? I'm realy stupid when it comes to this stuff. I would love some feadback.

It really comes down to the situation. If maintaining muscle as you get older is the only thing you're after, then properly dosed TRT ought to be enough. I lied, HGH is a pretty helpful addition.

When hair genetics aren't strong, primo and masteron have a reputation for destroying the hairline. There's also a school of thought that the elevated dht makes your face age faster. Picture an old, broken-in leather baseball mitt where your face should be, lol. As far as lab work goes, these are typically regarded as the "safer" compounds.

My take is that anavar's primary role shows up toward the end of a deeper cut, where the extra neural drive keeps the miserable strength drop on a cut from happening. For bulking, other compounds do the job better. Pumps on anavar can also get close to debilitating. If running or hiking is your thing, calf pumps can put a serious cap on what you're able to do.

Calm Logic said:

That's the broscience take — the equivalent of claiming you can safely drink antifreeze as long as you chase it with some charcoal.

Because of the FDA, for the most part, a lot of burn units no longer reach for Anavar/oxandralone and have switched to testosterone instead.

While running anavar for about 6 weeks with TUDCA and NAC, I've seen labwork and my own AST and ALT only just barely went out of range.

 

[Redz]

gusterbuster said:

It really comes down to the situation. If maintaining muscle as you get older is the only thing you're after, then properly dosed TRT ought to be enough. I lied, HGH is a pretty helpful addition.

When hair genetics aren't strong, primo and masteron have a reputation for destroying the hairline. There's also a school of thought that the elevated dht makes your face age faster. Picture an old, broken-in leather baseball mitt where your face should be, lol. As far as lab work goes, these are typically regarded as the "safer" compounds.

My take is that anavar's primary role shows up toward the end of a deeper cut, where the extra neural drive keeps the miserable strength drop on a cut from happening. For bulking, other compounds do the job better. Pumps on anavar can also get close to debilitating. If running or hiking is your thing, calf pumps can put a serious cap on what you're able to do.


While running anavar for about 6 weeks with TUDCA and NAC, I've seen labwork and my own AST and ALT only just barely went out of range.

For me, primo and dhts never triggered any hair shedding. Across more than 20 years of cycling different steroids, I've had zero problems. When the gene isn't there, it simply won't hit you.

 

[gusterbuster]

Redz said:

For me, primo and dhts never triggered any hair shedding. Across more than 20 years of cycling different steroids, I've had zero problems. When the gene isn't there, it simply won't hit you.

You should count yourself fortunate, haha. I'm aware of a handful of guys whose hairlines ended up like George Costanza's after just a couple of blasts, lol.

 

[Calm Logic]

gusterbuster said:

It really comes down to the situation. If maintaining muscle as you get older is the only thing you're after, then properly dosed TRT ought to be enough. I lied, HGH is a pretty helpful addition.

When hair genetics aren't strong, primo and masteron have a reputation for destroying the hairline. There's also a school of thought that the elevated dht makes your face age faster. Picture an old, broken-in leather baseball mitt where your face should be, lol. As far as lab work goes, these are typically regarded as the "safer" compounds.

My take is that anavar's primary role shows up toward the end of a deeper cut, where the extra neural drive keeps the miserable strength drop on a cut from happening. For bulking, other compounds do the job better. Pumps on anavar can also get close to debilitating. If running or hiking is your thing, calf pumps can put a serious cap on what you're able to do.


While running anavar for about 6 weeks with TUDCA and NAC, I've seen labwork and my own AST and ALT only just barely went out of range.

A liver ultrasound alone still wouldn't give you the whole picture, particularly when you're thinking about long-term use.

Over at Meso, plenty of guys steer clear of every oral — including the well-known polypharmacy "expert" there, plus a handful of others in a more cautious minority.

On the flip side, someone might run as much as 600 mg of testosterone weekly for a month or more, yet consider adding any oral steroid to be the riskier move. I've exchanged DMs with guys like that, who lean on supraphysiological testosterone doses and rarely post on Meso. Typically they're the type who'll only throw in injectable primo — which, to me, is still YOLO.

Either way, stacking several steroids carries inherent cardiovascular risk, and so does blasting test on its own, though that's generally reversible when you stop early enough:

Health effects of androgen abuse: a review of the HAARLEM

study

Smit et al said:


The potential for health damage by androgen abuse arguably forms a spectrum, ranging from negligible for one or a few short cycles, to large in case an athlete performs dozens of cycles or uses androgens nonstop for many years.

Click to expand...

Cardiovascular Disease in Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Users

During an average of 11 years of follow-up...AAS users had a 3-fold increased risk of acute myocardial infarction and nearly 9-fold higher risk of developing cardiomyopathy.

Click to expand...

 

[Shittersfull]

Abrakebabra said:

What is the goal you have in mind with it? The way I see it, AAS only become something really worth looking at once everything else has been dialled in for years and you've reached roughly the limit of what you can do naturally. I'd also say that with steroids, a "pretty safe bet" doesn't exist. Even an oral that's considered "mild" will probably wreck your lipids and put stress on your liver. As for me, I haven't trained anywhere near hard enough or long enough to make them worth the risk - though I get that other people will see it differently.

My main goal is to gain strength. For most of my life I was strong. Then 8 years ago a hard period in life hit and everything declined. I suppose I want a shortcut back to how I used to be. I'm able to hold onto what I have, I'm simply impatient. The fact that I said shortcut makes me reconsider this whole thing.

 

[Shittersfull]

lessthanhalf said:

A great deal hinges on what you're actually chasing here — is the aim long-term health, or is it appearance and strength? Near the end of your post you mention targeting replacement level TRT, and that's likely a good thing for long-term health. Once you push past that level, though, I believe the evidence is fairly unambiguous that risks appear, particularly cardiovascular ones over the long term (and psychiatric ones, which get discussed far less often). It's quite easy to get pulled into the reasoning behind AAS use — I've done some reading on the MESO forum, where almost everybody is using AAS to some extent, and the deeper you dig the more ordinary it starts to look. So the question that matters most is that first one: health, or strength and looks? That's what should guide how you weigh priorities against risks.

That's a fair question. Health comes first for me. To my mind, strength and health go hand in hand. I spent most of my life being strong, and at this point I'm not, which leaves me feeling weak.

 

[Shittersfull]

gusterbuster said:

It really comes down to the situation. If maintaining muscle as you get older is the only thing you're after, then properly dosed TRT ought to be enough. I lied, HGH is a pretty helpful addition.

When hair genetics aren't strong, primo and masteron have a reputation for destroying the hairline. There's also a school of thought that the elevated dht makes your face age faster. Picture an old, broken-in leather baseball mitt where your face should be, lol. As far as lab work goes, these are typically regarded as the "safer" compounds.

My take is that anavar's primary role shows up toward the end of a deeper cut, where the extra neural drive keeps the miserable strength drop on a cut from happening. For bulking, other compounds do the job better. Pumps on anavar can also get close to debilitating. If running or hiking is your thing, calf pumps can put a serious cap on what you're able to do.


While running anavar for about 6 weeks with TUDCA and NAC, I've seen labwork and my own AST and ALT only just barely went out of range.

Hgh is helpful. I'll keep educating myself further on it.

When it comes to primo or masteron, my hair genetics are good, so that's not a concern. And honestly, my face doesn't bother me either — I've always been ugly. When you say "safer" compounds, do you mean safer than anavar, or safer than the other options besides anavar?

Thanks for the reply and for sharing your experience.

 

[Redz]

gusterbuster said:

You should count yourself fortunate, haha. I'm aware of a handful of guys whose hairlines ended up like George Costanza's after just a couple of blasts, lol.

Back when I was in high school, a friend of mine was already dealing with reversal at 16. As for me, I'm clearly fortunate — my hair has gotten so long that I badly need a trim, I just let it grow wild lol.

 

[5byfive]

Peptides are nowhere near as complicated or as hazardous as AAS. Before you even think about going down that road, put in serious reading and research time. A thread like this one is not the place to gather the feedback that shapes a choice like that. Most of the danger can be reduced if you approach it properly, but approaching it properly is genuinely intricate. Training and nutrition both have to be locked in, you have to work out which supplements and auxiliary medications are required, and you need a real grasp of the compounds on your shortlist. On top of that, I would hold off until you are at 12% bodyfat or lower and have been lifting against resistance with real consistency for 3-5 years. There is one correct path and 100 incorrect ones.

 

[Calm Logic]

5byfive said:

Peptides are nowhere near as complicated or as hazardous as AAS. Before you even think about going down that road, put in serious reading and research time. A thread like this one is not the place to gather the feedback that shapes a choice like that. Most of the danger can be reduced if you approach it properly, but approaching it properly is genuinely intricate. Training and nutrition both have to be locked in, you have to work out which supplements and auxiliary medications are required, and you need a real grasp of the compounds on your shortlist. On top of that, I would hold off until you are at 12% bodyfat or lower and have been lifting against resistance with real consistency for 3-5 years. There is one correct path and 100 incorrect ones.

On top of that, the cost is steep. And even so, pursuing growth runs counter to living longer. It's still a YOLO mindset at the end of the day, only the level of YOLO differs.

Then there's what it does to mental health through neuroinflammation, plus the stigma attached. Being a steroid user in a doctor's office is often unpleasant, and yet AAS use only makes the need for primary care, cardiology, and urology grow. As the saying goes at Meso, you'd command more respect as a heroin user. Medical training covers typical substance use, not steroid use.

And the justifications AAS users offer are invariably questionable, just like with most recreational drugs whose health consequences are already known:

Anabolic androgenic steroid dependence is associated with executive dysfunction

Anabolic–Androgenic Steroids and Brain Damage

"Experimental evidence supports the idea that AASs-induced alterations in the brain contribute significantly to aggressive and impulsive behavior. This has major implications for public safety, particularly among individuals who engage in high-risk activities or occupations requiring emotional regulation and self-control."

 

[5byfive]

Calm Logic said:

On top of that, the cost is steep. And even so, pursuing growth runs counter to living longer. It's still a YOLO mindset at the end of the day, only the level of YOLO differs.

Then there's what it does to mental health through neuroinflammation, plus the stigma attached. Being a steroid user in a doctor's office is often unpleasant, and yet AAS use only makes the need for primary care, cardiology, and urology grow. As the saying goes at Meso, you'd command more respect as a heroin user. Medical training covers typical substance use, not steroid use.

And the justifications AAS users offer are invariably questionable, just like with most recreational drugs whose health consequences are already known:

Anabolic androgenic steroid dependence is associated with executive dysfunction

Anabolic–Androgenic Steroids and Brain Damage

"Experimental evidence supports the idea that AASs-induced alterations in the brain contribute significantly to aggressive and impulsive behavior. This has major implications for public safety, particularly among individuals who engage in high-risk activities or occupations requiring emotional regulation and self-control."

Using something and being dependent on it aren't the same thing. Alcohol can be consumed responsibly, or it can be abused. Anabolics work the same way. The poison is in the dose, as the saying goes.

My view is that AAS can be used responsibly in a way that cuts risk considerably. My other view is that 99% of the people who use them aren't doing that.

 

[Calm Logic]

5byfive said:

Using something and being dependent on it aren't the same thing. Alcohol can be consumed responsibly, or it can be abused. Anabolics work the same way. The poison is in the dose, as the saying goes.

My view is that AAS can be used responsibly in a way that cuts risk considerably. My other view is that 99% of the people who use them aren't doing that.

Steroids do not stop hitting receptors at any point in the day — 24/7 activity is the norm unless a person cycles off entirely. That makes it an ongoing physiological obligation, one that reinforces itself, and the dose can creep upward or more compounds can get stacked in.

On top of that, steroid use brings a fear of watching gains, sexual performance, and even identity slip away, and that fear is what sustains the habit across years, at times decades.

 

[5byfive]

Calm Logic said:

Steroids do not stop hitting receptors at any point in the day — 24/7 activity is the norm unless a person cycles off entirely. That makes it an ongoing physiological obligation, one that reinforces itself, and the dose can creep upward or more compounds can get stacked in.

On top of that, steroid use brings a fear of watching gains, sexual performance, and even identity slip away, and that fear is what sustains the habit across years, at times decades.

Your views are yours to hold, and it's clear you aren't interested in a back-and-forth, so there's nothing to be gained by continuing to respond.