3ml Pen Injector Pre Purged Vial: Thoughts?

[Romulusguy]

During my first several weeks exploring peptides, I relied on Easy Touch insulin needles. After just a handful of shots, the anxiety and anticipation around self-injection disappeared. But it wasn't long before I found that injection pens offered more accurate dosing with no pain at all, so these days I move every reconstituted peptide into 3ml pen vials. The method itself is pretty straightforward if you follow peptidecritic's excellent instructions, though doing it properly and safely does generate some waste. You need one needle to draw up the reconstituted peptides, a vent needle for the fresh pen cartridge vial, and another new needle to push the fluid into the pen vial. After the vial is filled and placed into my pen, I attach a needle and then "purge" the air gap until a few drops come out the needle tip.

Today, I came across these steam sterilized "pre purged" vials: https://www.pen-depot.com/products/...d-3-ml-long-stopper-pen-cartridges-single-use

It sounds logical and like a solid choice, but I'm wondering what everyone thinks about whether contamination could occur from that long open space that will shortly be filled with liquid as the internal plunger descends under pressure. Peptidecritic covers this process and its possible contamination risks in his DIY pre-purge video, however in peptidecritic's video, he is talking about a DIY approach, whereas the vials I'm asking about are sterilized after the pre-purging step.

So my question: with these sterilized, pre purged vials, is the contamination risk higher, lower, or the same as my current approach of using multiple (clean/fresh) needles to vent and transfer into a "non purged" vial? In other words, do these pre-purged sterile vials introduce any extra risk of contaminating the sterile internal environment compared to my current method of filling "non purged" 3ml pen vials? What are your thoughts?

 

[randompersonrandom]

I gave the approach of purging first and then filling a shot, a method that seems to have some fans around here. Skipping the cart venting was a plus and it cut down on the fuss a bit, but I ended up dropping it and returning to venting the cart without that step. Since I'm already running filtration and putting serious effort into staying sterile, risking that by loading into a cart that's had air exposure strikes me as pointless, so for me the call is to avoid overcomplicating things.

 

[javajoe316]

Appreciate it @Romulusguy and @randompersonrandom — some v4 pens I ordered land today, so I've been walking through the workflow mentally. Using 1 luer lock for recon, 1 filter, 1 luer lock, 1 syringe for venting to transfer to new vial, then a pen needle to purge air the way you described — it does look wasteful.

When 2 fresh pen vials are being loaded, none of that gear can be reused, correct?

 

[Romulusguy]

randompersonrandom said:

I gave the approach of purging first and then filling a shot, a method that seems to have some fans around here. Skipping the cart venting was a plus and it cut down on the fuss a bit, but I ended up dropping it and returning to venting the cart without that step. Since I'm already running filtration and putting serious effort into staying sterile, risking that by loading into a cart that's had air exposure strikes me as pointless, so for me the call is to avoid overcomplicating things.

I feel the same way. Once I've reconstituted, I always run it through a filter, and I take safety and cleanliness very seriously. The one thing that keeps me from writing off these cartridges entirely is the sterilization question: could using them actually carry more risk than the so-called "risk" of drawing with multiple needles that have been exposed to air—even if only for a moment—when venting and transferring from non-purged vials?

 

[randompersonrandom]

javajoe316 said:

Appreciate it @Romulusguy and @randompersonrandom — some v4 pens I ordered land today, so I've been walking through the workflow mentally. Using 1 luer lock for recon, 1 filter, 1 luer lock, 1 syringe for venting to transfer to new vial, then a pen needle to purge air the way you described — it does look wasteful.

When 2 fresh pen vials are being loaded, none of that gear can be reused, correct?

When it's the same peptide and the same session, I'll reuse. The path is sterile cartridge (alcohol-wiped) to sterile cartridge (alcohol-wiped). For KLOW at 12 ml, that means 4 carts; a single vent needle covers all 4, and a 13mm filter handles the whole batch.

 

[Dilbert4Life]

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

 

[Romulusguy]

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

When it comes to regular insulin needles, my pick is the 1ml Easy Comfort 31G 1cc 5/16". The diabetic warehouse is where I source them. In my view, no better insulin needles exist.

As for 3ml pen cartirdges, venting works with just about any needle size; my venting choice has been a 20 gauge. For pulling the solution out and moving it, an 18 gauge is what I reach for. And make sure you have your 13mm filters!

 

[Estarossa19]

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

I picked up a kit through underground supply and the outcome satisfied me. Since I now know what's required, I'll simply purchase a large quantity from amazon in bulk. Some hospira is included too.

 

[desinr-gal]

Romulusguy said:

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

When it comes to regular insulin needles, my pick is the 1ml Easy Comfort 31G 1cc 5/16". The diabetic warehouse is where I source them. In my view, no better insulin needles exist.

As for 3ml pen cartirdges, venting works with just about any needle size; my venting choice has been a 20 gauge. For pulling the solution out and moving it, an 18 gauge is what I reach for. And make sure you have your 13mm filters!

Just a warning: research found that when needle gauges go under 22 — at least I believe that was the threshold — coring can happen. What that means is a small piece of the rubber stopper gets punched out and can wind up inside your peptide.

Personally, I would stick with 25 or above. Another tip: going in at an angle makes coring less likely.

 

[yrrdead]

desinr-gal said:

Romulusguy said:

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

When it comes to regular insulin needles, my pick is the 1ml Easy Comfort 31G 1cc 5/16". The diabetic warehouse is where I source them. In my view, no better insulin needles exist.

As for 3ml pen cartirdges, venting works with just about any needle size; my venting choice has been a 20 gauge. For pulling the solution out and moving it, an 18 gauge is what I reach for. And make sure you have your 13mm filters!

Just a warning: research found that when needle gauges go under 22 — at least I believe that was the threshold — coring can happen. What that means is a small piece of the rubber stopper gets punched out and can wind up inside your peptide.

Personally, I would stick with 25 or above. Another tip: going in at an angle makes coring less likely.

Fragmentation and coring of a vial – An avoidable threat - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Jimothy82]

desinr-gal said:

Romulusguy said:

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

When it comes to regular insulin needles, my pick is the 1ml Easy Comfort 31G 1cc 5/16". The diabetic warehouse is where I source them. In my view, no better insulin needles exist.

As for 3ml pen cartirdges, venting works with just about any needle size; my venting choice has been a 20 gauge. For pulling the solution out and moving it, an 18 gauge is what I reach for. And make sure you have your 13mm filters!

Just a warning: research found that when needle gauges go under 22 — at least I believe that was the threshold — coring can happen. What that means is a small piece of the rubber stopper gets punched out and can wind up inside your peptide.

Personally, I would stick with 25 or above. Another tip: going in at an angle makes coring less likely.

That's precisely what I needed to know—thanks! Filling my pen cartridges has been giving me trouble recently, and I figure it's down to one of 2 possibilities... maybe the vent needle I'm using is too thin, so not enough air can escape? Or could my 13mm PES .22 filter be clogging up, if that's even a thing? So I'm going to switch to bigger needles for venting, but I had no idea what size to pick

Bottom line: if anyone has suggestions or thoughts, I'd really appreciate them—thanks!

 

[desinr-gal]

Jimothy82 said:

desinr-gal said:

Romulusguy said:

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

When it comes to regular insulin needles, my pick is the 1ml Easy Comfort 31G 1cc 5/16". The diabetic warehouse is where I source them. In my view, no better insulin needles exist.

As for 3ml pen cartirdges, venting works with just about any needle size; my venting choice has been a 20 gauge. For pulling the solution out and moving it, an 18 gauge is what I reach for. And make sure you have your 13mm filters!

Just a warning: research found that when needle gauges go under 22 — at least I believe that was the threshold — coring can happen. What that means is a small piece of the rubber stopper gets punched out and can wind up inside your peptide.

Personally, I would stick with 25 or above. Another tip: going in at an angle makes coring less likely.

That's precisely what I needed to know—thanks! Filling my pen cartridges has been giving me trouble recently, and I figure it's down to one of 2 possibilities... maybe the vent needle I'm using is too thin, so not enough air can escape? Or could my 13mm PES .22 filter be clogging up, if that's even a thing? So I'm going to switch to bigger needles for venting, but I had no idea what size to pick

Bottom line: if anyone has suggestions or thoughts, I'd really appreciate them—thanks!

Which gauge do you vent with? I gave one of those little pen needles a shot and it was a dud. For vents, I go with the 28g(?) ones I pick up. A 13mm filter has never jammed on me, except when I pull the syringe off and reattach it — that air gap sitting between the liquids can occasionally cause trouble.

 

[Jimothy82]

desinr-gal said:

Jimothy82 said:

desinr-gal said:

Romulusguy said:

Dilbert4Life said:

Getting ready to order needles and syringes for cartridge prep. What sizes work for you?

When it comes to regular insulin needles, my pick is the 1ml Easy Comfort 31G 1cc 5/16". The diabetic warehouse is where I source them. In my view, no better insulin needles exist.

As for 3ml pen cartirdges, venting works with just about any needle size; my venting choice has been a 20 gauge. For pulling the solution out and moving it, an 18 gauge is what I reach for. And make sure you have your 13mm filters!

Just a warning: research found that when needle gauges go under 22 — at least I believe that was the threshold — coring can happen. What that means is a small piece of the rubber stopper gets punched out and can wind up inside your peptide.

Personally, I would stick with 25 or above. Another tip: going in at an angle makes coring less likely.

That's precisely what I needed to know—thanks! Filling my pen cartridges has been giving me trouble recently, and I figure it's down to one of 2 possibilities... maybe the vent needle I'm using is too thin, so not enough air can escape? Or could my 13mm PES .22 filter be clogging up, if that's even a thing? So I'm going to switch to bigger needles for venting, but I had no idea what size to pick

Bottom line: if anyone has suggestions or thoughts, I'd really appreciate them—thanks!

Which gauge do you vent with? I gave one of those little pen needles a shot and it was a dud. For vents, I go with the 28g(?) ones I pick up. A 13mm filter has never jammed on me, except when I pull the syringe off and reattach it — that air gap sitting between the liquids can occasionally cause trouble.

Pretty sure it was 32g, though I've now placed an order for 25g ones to handle venting — appreciate the advice!

 

[Blueeyedme]

No. Speaking for myself, a cartridge of that kind isn't something I'd go with.

 

[spanky2026]

I saw a clip a few weeks ago—naturally, I can't locate it at the moment—where a person was working with a cartridge that came pre-purged. Instead of removing the sterile paper/clear wrapping first, they drove the needle straight through that packaging to add the peptide into the cartridge. Once it was filled, they peeled off the wrap and put it into the pen. I assume the point was to limit extra contact while the stopper traveled downward?

 

[QueenMuntha]

I'm unsure about this. I went ahead and bought a few. I figure the air inside my home isn't exactly swarming with germs and pathogens, at least that's what I'm hoping.

On the other hand, I'm pretty comfortable taking risks.

 

[Zelmar702]

Per Gemini:

If you're dealing exclusively with a 3 mL pen cartridge, the internal barrel and septum measurements mean the needle specs need to be dialed in even tighter.

Ideal Air-Venting Specs for a 3 mL Cartridge​#-optimal-venting-specifications-for-a-3-ml-cartridge

• Gauge: 23G or 25G
  
  • 23G: Brings air pressure to equilibrium right away. Best choice when you need to move fluid in or out rapidly.
    
  • 25G: Gives the greatest possible safeguard for the small 3 mL septums. It cuts rubber movement to a minimum, so the septum stays sealed tight after the cartridge goes into an injector pen.
• Length: 0.5 inch (13 mm) or 1 inch (25 mm)
  
  • 0.5 inch: Recommended. Since a 3 mL cartridge barrel is slim (usually about 8.5 mm inner diameter) and stubby, a shorter needle passes through the rubber stopper cleanly without any chance of ending up inside the fluid.
    
  • 1 inch: Works, but you have to watch the depth closely. Push it in only far enough that the bevel opening barely passes the inner side of the rubber stopper (roughly 2–4 mm deep).

Important Handling Advice for 3 mL Cartridges​#-key-execution-tips-for-3-ml-cartridges

1. Bevel Elevation: The vent needle tip must always stay entirely within the air headspace above the liquid level. Given how little volume a 3 mL cartridge holds, going too deep with the needle will put the opening under liquid, making fluid shoot from the vent instead of letting air pressure escape.
   
2. Septum Center Point: Target the middle of the rubber septum disc. On 3 mL cartridges, the cap's outer edge frequently overlaps part of the rubber flange; going in near the center lets you pass through cleanly and avoids snagging on the aluminum shell.
   
3. Avoid Gauges $\le$ 20G: Do not put 18G or 20G needles through a 3 mL cartridge septum. They tend to core or stretch that small rubber seal, which causes leaks after the plunger is pressurized inside the pen.

 

[desinr-gal]

spanky2026 said:

I saw a clip a few weeks ago—naturally, I can't locate it at the moment—where a person was working with a cartridge that came pre-purged. Instead of removing the sterile paper/clear wrapping first, they drove the needle straight through that packaging to add the peptide into the cartridge. Once it was filled, they peeled off the wrap and put it into the pen. I assume the point was to limit extra contact while the stopper traveled downward?

and they put a sheet of paper inside as well? that is completely illogical.