When to dose Mots-C for cardio

[miameow]

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

What HOMA-IR actually tells you is how well your cells respond to insulin — nothing more. It is derived purely from fasting glucose plus fasting insulin. So while poor mitochondrial function often travels with insulin resistance, that does not turn HOMA-IR into a readout of mitochondrial health. The two can move together without one driving the other.

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

Labs came back today and my HOMA-IR landed at .80, right in the range it should be.

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

Labs came back today and my HOMA-IR landed at .80, right in the range it should be.

That's great news — sounds like your mitochondria are already running well enough that extra MOTS-c may not add all that much.

Taking a 90-day break from MOTS-c starting now. This past week I kept crashing after lunch and could not work out which compound was responsible — ruling things out one at a time, MOTS-c was the one. Once my body has had its fill of it, homocysteine starts climbing, which is the usual pattern for me. NAD+ every other day and SS-31 daily will carry on as before. Being a lab rat is a grind.

Good to know — thanks for laying that out. Mine comes in at 0.5, and even so I would swear the daily MOTS-c (5mg) is doing something for me. NAD+ is the awkward one in my case: it flattens me, so I handle it with real caution. Looks like my experience is nearly the mirror image of yours.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

miameow said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

What HOMA-IR actually tells you is how well your cells respond to insulin — nothing more. It is derived purely from fasting glucose plus fasting insulin. So while poor mitochondrial function often travels with insulin resistance, that does not turn HOMA-IR into a readout of mitochondrial health. The two can move together without one driving the other.

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

Labs came back today and my HOMA-IR landed at .80, right in the range it should be.

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

Labs came back today and my HOMA-IR landed at .80, right in the range it should be.

That's great news — sounds like your mitochondria are already running well enough that extra MOTS-c may not add all that much.

Taking a 90-day break from MOTS-c starting now. This past week I kept crashing after lunch and could not work out which compound was responsible — ruling things out one at a time, MOTS-c was the one. Once my body has had its fill of it, homocysteine starts climbing, which is the usual pattern for me. NAD+ every other day and SS-31 daily will carry on as before. Being a lab rat is a grind.

Good to know — thanks for laying that out. Mine comes in at 0.5, and even so I would swear the daily MOTS-c (5mg) is doing something for me. NAD+ is the awkward one in my case: it flattens me, so I handle it with real caution. Looks like my experience is nearly the mirror image of yours.

Where the Mitochondria Jam Up

Skeletal muscle and the liver are where this mostly plays out. Under normal conditions their mitochondria oxidise fatty acids and glucose into ATP. But once the incoming fuel — especially fats and refined carbs — outpaces what the cell actually needs in ATP, the electron transport chain starts to queue up.

Once the fuel arriving outruns what the mitochondria can process, a chain of events follows:

1. Beta-oxidation stalls: fatty acids enter the process but the mitochondria cannot carry them through to completion.

2. Lipid spillover turns toxic: partially oxidised fatty acids escape into the intracellular space as lipotoxic intermediaries — Diacylglycerols (DAGs) and Ceramides in particular.

3. Signalling gets blocked: DAGs and ceramides are deeply disruptive. They switch on stress enzymes such as Protein Kinase C (PKC), which in turn phosphorylates the Insulin Receptor Substrate 1 (IRS-1) at the wrong residue — serine where tyrosine was needed.

What That Shows Up As: An Elevated HOMA-IR

With IRS-1 chemically altered by the lipid spillover, insulin can no longer get through to it — it has effectively gone deaf.

Insulin still docks at the receptor on the cell surface, but the downstream signal that would move the glucose channels into place (GLUT4 translocation) never arrives. The pancreas responds by pouring out large volumes of compensatory insulin to shove glucose out of the bloodstream and into a cell that is resisting it.

That mechanism is precisely what a fasting lab panel captures. An elevated HOMA-IR is a strong hint that hepatic and muscle mitochondria are overloaded in practice and are leaking DAGs and ceramides as a result.

If insulin resistance is at root a mitochondrial problem, then bringing a HOMA-IR down comes back to two levers: cut the substrate arriving at the mitochondria (fasting, a calorie deficit), or raise how fast they burn.

Hence the intense clinical appetite for agents that push mitochondria to spend energy. Drugs that activate AMPK — prompting fresh, healthy mitochondria to be built — or that act as uncouplers, deliberately wasting the proton gradient as heat to force mitochondria through a lipid backlog, can clear intracellular DAGs quickly and bring insulin sensitivity back.

 

[miameow]

Turbo-Farmer said:

miameow said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

What HOMA-IR actually tells you is how well your cells respond to insulin — nothing more. It is derived purely from fasting glucose plus fasting insulin. So while poor mitochondrial function often travels with insulin resistance, that does not turn HOMA-IR into a readout of mitochondrial health. The two can move together without one driving the other.

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

Labs came back today and my HOMA-IR landed at .80, right in the range it should be.

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

Turbo-Farmer said:

chewonmysac said:

8mg EOD MOTS-c is what I go with, alternating with NAD+ 100mg. Fasted, both in the AM pre workout. After lunch, SS31 10mg daily. Optimal is what my mitochondria is now. 6 months of running so far.

Have you run that calculation yourself,

HOMA-IR (the Homeostatic Model Assessment for Insulin Resistance)

as a way to gauge mitochondrial function?

Labs came back today and my HOMA-IR landed at .80, right in the range it should be.

That's great news — sounds like your mitochondria are already running well enough that extra MOTS-c may not add all that much.

Taking a 90-day break from MOTS-c starting now. This past week I kept crashing after lunch and could not work out which compound was responsible — ruling things out one at a time, MOTS-c was the one. Once my body has had its fill of it, homocysteine starts climbing, which is the usual pattern for me. NAD+ every other day and SS-31 daily will carry on as before. Being a lab rat is a grind.

Good to know — thanks for laying that out. Mine comes in at 0.5, and even so I would swear the daily MOTS-c (5mg) is doing something for me. NAD+ is the awkward one in my case: it flattens me, so I handle it with real caution. Looks like my experience is nearly the mirror image of yours.

Where the Mitochondria Jam Up

Skeletal muscle and the liver are where this mostly plays out. Under normal conditions their mitochondria oxidise fatty acids and glucose into ATP. But once the incoming fuel — especially fats and refined carbs — outpaces what the cell actually needs in ATP, the electron transport chain starts to queue up.

Once the fuel arriving outruns what the mitochondria can process, a chain of events follows:

1. Beta-oxidation stalls: fatty acids enter the process but the mitochondria cannot carry them through to completion.

2. Lipid spillover turns toxic: partially oxidised fatty acids escape into the intracellular space as lipotoxic intermediaries — Diacylglycerols (DAGs) and Ceramides in particular.

3. Signalling gets blocked: DAGs and ceramides are deeply disruptive. They switch on stress enzymes such as Protein Kinase C (PKC), which in turn phosphorylates the Insulin Receptor Substrate 1 (IRS-1) at the wrong residue — serine where tyrosine was needed.

What That Shows Up As: An Elevated HOMA-IR

With IRS-1 chemically altered by the lipid spillover, insulin can no longer get through to it — it has effectively gone deaf.

Insulin still docks at the receptor on the cell surface, but the downstream signal that would move the glucose channels into place (GLUT4 translocation) never arrives. The pancreas responds by pouring out large volumes of compensatory insulin to shove glucose out of the bloodstream and into a cell that is resisting it.

That mechanism is precisely what a fasting lab panel captures. An elevated HOMA-IR is a strong hint that hepatic and muscle mitochondria are overloaded in practice and are leaking DAGs and ceramides as a result.

If insulin resistance is at root a mitochondrial problem, then bringing a HOMA-IR down comes back to two levers: cut the substrate arriving at the mitochondria (fasting, a calorie deficit), or raise how fast they burn.

Hence the intense clinical appetite for agents that push mitochondria to spend energy. Drugs that activate AMPK — prompting fresh, healthy mitochondria to be built — or that act as uncouplers, deliberately wasting the proton gradient as heat to force mitochondria through a lipid backlog, can clear intracellular DAGs quickly and bring insulin sensitivity back.

I am not arguing that poor mitochondrial function plays no part in insulin resistance — I said as much in my first post. What I am saying is narrower: HOMA-IR on its own says nothing about how the mitochondria are doing, because it is built from fasting insulin and fasting glucose. Correlation between the two is not measurement. Human studies show they can come apart: your HOMA-IR can look perfectly healthy while mitochondrial function is still impaired.

 

[MapleMisfit]

This thread is really interesting. It hit me that my Mots dosing was way too low. I went through a 10 mg vial using 1 mg daily, every day, and honestly felt nothing. Next time I'll run it at a larger dose. Appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Penkkator]

MapleMisfit said:

This thread is really interesting. It hit me that my Mots dosing was way too low. I went through a 10 mg vial using 1 mg daily, every day, and honestly felt nothing. Next time I'll run it at a larger dose. Appreciate everyone's input.

Hey, I'm dealing with the same situation; the only difference is that I appear to have gotten a decent placebo effect from it. Really good thread.

 

[Evidentgirl.com]

gimmeshelter said:


I bought some Mots and my hope was to using it a couple hrs before either a gym session or a cardio session ( I road bike ride 30-60 miles at a time and it’s intense cardio) I was not planning taking, for example, 15mg across 3 days in a given week. ONLY take before I jump on my road bike.

I have seen some threads who say that would give me a boost in performance, some say the opposite. Since mots is cheap, I figured I’d grab a kit and try. The boost I want is not to beat other but to allow me to have a hard session and get my gains there.

Have other RS used mots just before endurance work with success? I am thinking of starting low, 5mg and go up from there. I have ready u need as much as 15mg for performance gains w the range being 10-15mg.

Click to expand...

As an athletic trainer who has been trying MOTS-C myself, the main effect I've seen is that training quality holds up further into a workout, particularly on days mixing resistance work with cardio. A few of the athletes I work with have mentioned comparable experiences—though not tied to MOTS-C itself—of sustaining effort longer after their conditioning and recovery are on point.

 

[gimmeshelter]

Evidentgirl.com said:

gimmeshelter said:


I bought some Mots and my hope was to using it a couple hrs before either a gym session or a cardio session ( I road bike ride 30-60 miles at a time and it’s intense cardio) I was not planning taking, for example, 15mg across 3 days in a given week. ONLY take before I jump on my road bike.

I have seen some threads who say that would give me a boost in performance, some say the opposite. Since mots is cheap, I figured I’d grab a kit and try. The boost I want is not to beat other but to allow me to have a hard session and get my gains there.

Have other RS used mots just before endurance work with success? I am thinking of starting low, 5mg and go up from there. I have ready u need as much as 15mg for performance gains w the range being 10-15mg.

Click to expand...

As an athletic trainer who has been trying MOTS-C myself, the main effect I've seen is that training quality holds up further into a workout, particularly on days mixing resistance work with cardio. A few of the athletes I work with have mentioned comparable experiences—though not tied to MOTS-C itself—of sustaining effort longer after their conditioning and recovery are on point.

Appreciate it - getting ready to begin with mots after finishing a KLOW cycle, then I'll give mots a go. Not a fan of combining peppers

 

[ceeboo]

I'm planning to put mots-c into my routine too. On weekends I'm normally playing sports — badminton and volleyball.

What did your starting doses look like? Did you jump right in at 2.5mg per injection? My idea is to pin it 3x per week.

 

[DS36]

My current stack runs NAD+ alongside SS-31 through the first 30 days, then switches to Mots-c plus NAD+ for the remaining 30 days. I'm only in month 1 so far, and honestly the only thing holding me back was my bike saddle — otherwise I felt capable of riding clear across America. To be clear, my riding stayed between zone 2 and zone 4, never an all-out effort.