What's the deal with Hospira water hype?

[laansasa]

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

 

[WLBLD]

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

Glad to hear it. They need a rival to stop them getting complacent!!

 

[homebrew]

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

BioWater and H have a few points of separation:

• Once opened, it needs to be kept cold
  
• Throw it out 20 days after the stopper is first punctured
  
• Comes in a 30 mL amber glass vial
  
• Good for 24 months / can be stored at room temperature

 

[longex2021]

homebrew said:

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

BioWater and H have a few points of separation:

• Once opened, it needs to be kept cold
  
• Throw it out 20 days after the stopper is first punctured
  
• Comes in a 30 mL amber glass vial
  
• Good for 24 months / can be stored at room temperature

What's the reason to purchase it? Compared to Hospira, it costs more.

 

[BNLFL]

Calm Logic said:

indolent said:

gusterbuster said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

Actually, they do exist if you check foreign sources. Genetek bac water can be found on India mart. Roughly 35 dollars including shipping gets you 100 10ml plastic ampules

Has anyone sent any of these off for third-party lab testing? I'd also like to know whether a single trustworthy vendor in India sells them, or whether IndiaMart is just a free-for-all full of counterfeits.

Per PTDS, Ocean Pharmaceutical's BAC out of India cleared 3P sterility, endos, pH, and benzyl content testing, and Hospira did too. Consistency is the open question now, so 1 GB for Ocean BAC is going to run those same assays on its own.

For my part, I'd rather simply load up on Hospira, particularly since Ocean is only a small outfit. Plus the cost gap isn't large, above all when you factor in the chance of customs seizure on BAC coming from India.

I went ahead and became a member of their group. Nexus is another one that has all that testing, and its results also came back good. It was part of a group buy in TG on a busy GB place.

 

[Mainah]

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

I wouldn't necessarily describe that as good...

This is TM BioWater's own COA, which Vanguard Laboratory released directly.

It failed both Benzyl Alcohol Content and Sterility, and on top of that the Endotoxin result sits 100x higher than the USP spec it claims to meet.

 

[laansasa]

Mainah said:

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

I wouldn't necessarily describe that as good...

This is TM BioWater's own COA, which Vanguard Laboratory released directly.

It failed both Benzyl Alcohol Content and Sterility, and on top of that the Endotoxin result sits 100x higher than the USP spec it claims to meet.

View attachment 10791

That's quite intriguing! It's really disheartening that even Farris labs rolled it out as some exciting new development (though apparently it's not!). Just how trustworthy is Vanguard? I've come across conflicting opinions.

 

[indolent]

laansasa said:

Mainah said:

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

I wouldn't necessarily describe that as good...

This is TM BioWater's own COA, which Vanguard Laboratory released directly.

It failed both Benzyl Alcohol Content and Sterility, and on top of that the Endotoxin result sits 100x higher than the USP spec it claims to meet.

View attachment 10791

That's quite intriguing! It's really disheartening that even Farris labs rolled it out as some exciting new development (though apparently it's not!). Just how trustworthy is Vanguard? I've come across conflicting opinions.View attachment 10792

"Mixed" isn't the word I'd use for Vanguard's reviews — "atrocious" fits better. That said, I'm not about to put my trust in TM BioWater either.

Still, unless I've got it wrong, Farris Laboratories operates as a legitimate distributor of medical supplies, which makes it a noteworthy data point if they're carrying this product.

Edit: right now it's not showing up on Farris's site. Only Hospira is there. And it costs $423 per case!

 

[jamesprt]

Can't get it in the EU, so I'm going with bac water from a vendor — 10 vials of 10ml.

 

[laansasa]

indolent said:

laansasa said:

Mainah said:

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

I wouldn't necessarily describe that as good...

This is TM BioWater's own COA, which Vanguard Laboratory released directly.

It failed both Benzyl Alcohol Content and Sterility, and on top of that the Endotoxin result sits 100x higher than the USP spec it claims to meet.

View attachment 10791

That's quite intriguing! It's really disheartening that even Farris labs rolled it out as some exciting new development (though apparently it's not!). Just how trustworthy is Vanguard? I've come across conflicting opinions.View attachment 10792

"Mixed" isn't the word I'd use for Vanguard's reviews — "atrocious" fits better. That said, I'm not about to put my trust in TM BioWater either.

Still, unless I've got it wrong, Farris Laboratories operates as a legitimate distributor of medical supplies, which makes it a noteworthy data point if they're carrying this product.

Edit: right now it's not showing up on Farris's site. Only Hospira is there. And it costs $423 per case!

Oh wow, I had no idea Vanguard was THAT terrible... and honestly, since it came from Farris labs, I figured that made it seem more legit. It's been a couple of months since I last ordered from them, so I didn't realize it had disappeared from their site. For Hospira, they're the ones I always turn to. Are they just OOS, or did they decide to scrap that new TM water altogether?

 

[Supremo22]

jamesprt said:

Can't get it in the EU, so I'm going with bac water from a vendor — 10 vials of 10ml.

Since Hospira is tough to get in the EU, I went ahead and picked up Genetek.

 

[headward]

Supremo22 said:

jamesprt said:

Can't get it in the EU, so I'm going with bac water from a vendor — 10 vials of 10ml.

Since Hospira is tough to get in the EU, I went ahead and picked up Genetek.

I picked up GT too. Fifty ampules ran me half a bill. The testing group I'm in reports solid results. Even so, I'm still going through some untested bac water from a random vendor, and I don't use filters. From what I gather, if you have no symptoms at all, there's nothing to worry about. It isn't a silent killer. Most likely it's fine, and endotoxins don't amount to much.

 

[Goonwise]

laansasa said:

Mainah said:

laansasa said:

WLBLD said:

It's a shame the market doesn't offer a wider range of pharmaceutical grade choices, which would create a fairer competitive environment and provide alternatives when shortages, recalls, and similar disruptions occur — plus, naturally, that would help keep prices both more competitive and more stable.

I've come across a different brand that looks quite solid - it even markets itself as superior, though it costs a few dollars extra.

I wouldn't necessarily describe that as good...

This is TM BioWater's own COA, which Vanguard Laboratory released directly.

It failed both Benzyl Alcohol Content and Sterility, and on top of that the Endotoxin result sits 100x higher than the USP spec it claims to meet.

View attachment 10791

That's quite intriguing! It's really disheartening that even Farris labs rolled it out as some exciting new development (though apparently it's not!). Just how trustworthy is Vanguard? I've come across conflicting opinions.View attachment 10792

What reason would there be for a NASA engineer to be involved in making BAC water? Honestly, this seems like nonsense to me.

 

[cyclone0316]

For half a year, Genetech's bacteriostatic water has been my go-to, and it has worked well for me. From what I know, this company holds WHO GMP certification. Buying bacteriostatic water from unknown sellers is risky, but insisting that Hospira is the sole choice seems unnecessary to me.

 

[flipperdosan]

Supremo22 said:

jamesprt said:

Can't get it in the EU, so I'm going with bac water from a vendor — 10 vials of 10ml.

Since Hospira is tough to get in the EU, I went ahead and picked up Genetek.

What's the method to obtain it?

 

[tonipitzikata]

Supremo22 said:

jamesprt said:

Can't get it in the EU, so I'm going with bac water from a vendor — 10 vials of 10ml.

Since Hospira is tough to get in the EU, I went ahead and picked up Genetek.

I had been considering Genetek as well, but instead I went and mixed up my own BAC water.

It does feel somewhat risky since my kitchen isn't exactly a sterile place, yet ultimately all you're doing is moving liquid from 1 container to 1 vial - the same as you'd do when reconstituting a peptide.

Compared to any other option, particularly Hospira in Germany, it's far less expensive. I'm able to verify the alcohol percentage is right and check the PH - and if anything turns out wrong, the money lost isn't significant.

 

[dayumay]

Peptidedudez said:

Is it just the name? The only ingredients are sterile water and benzyl alcohol. If someone got USP-grade water plus benzyl alcohol and combined them at the right concentration or dilution, wouldn't that basically give you "Hospira water"?

Yeah, the hype around Hospira bac water is way too much. I've gone with standard bac water sourced from China and had zero issues for 2 years.

 

[jamesprt]

I can't get Hospira here in the EU, so I was relying on the water that came from my seller. Then I noticed odd stuff showing up in my vials — particles, which I even posted about in a thread. After that I picked up some water sold on Amazon, "phd products bac water", and it seemed okay.

 

[Supremo22]

flipperdosan said:

Supremo22 said:

jamesprt said:

Can't get it in the EU, so I'm going with bac water from a vendor — 10 vials of 10ml.

Since Hospira is tough to get in the EU, I went ahead and picked up Genetek.

What's the method to obtain it?

Try Indiamart. Reach out to multiple sellers, negotiate on price, and you can probably land 100x10ml bottles for roughly 40-50$ shipping included.

 

[BigRed1]

The straightforward reason comes down to proven reliability and safety.

With so many variables and dangers we can't influence, I figure most people prefer to pick the strongest choice for whatever is within our power.

When you break it down, it only costs a little more per vial.