Peptidesearch
Explorer
krsct said:
Because the tirz effect seemed to be waning, and TBH, there is a certain outlaw-ish thrill in operating in the grey market.
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I Knew it!
What the hell am I doing?
- Thread starter krsct
- Start date
I Knew it!
krsct
Explorer
Are we really sure that this is true? How do we know?
Jellybelly54
Explorer
Yes we are. Just a simple Google search will give you several companies in CN that manufacture for the two big GLP companies. Many of the CN companies were started with venture capital money from the US big pharma industries . It’s a fact.
I'm also a physician and when my cardiologist suggested that I consider a GLP-1,vlooked into it. Was going to cost me $875/month for brand as was not covered by insurance. My PCP suggested compounding pharmacy which brought price down to $285/month. After discovering grey market and reading the NEJM article about reta decided to jump into the water. My doc's have been very happy with the results (100lbs) and have been following my progress closely. Now starting to jump down the rabbit hole looking at so many other peptides.
krsct
Explorer
And I guess that the legal US compounders get it from these same companies?
Are there anymore legal compounders or just ones that haven't received a c&d letter yet? But yes, they would get the raws from the same places. There are (or were) some US companies that also claimed to lysophilize the raws themselves, but I don't know how true that is anymore. Some folks here are better plugged into that space and may have a better idea.
Jellybelly54
Explorer
There is a list with the FDA of FDA cleared manufactures all around the world that are cleared by the FDA to produce pharmaceuticals that can then be imported into the US and be compounded by either a 503a or 503b pharmacy . Drug manufactures like Lily don’t have to be classified as either because their final product has been tested and approved by the FDA . In NC Lily important tons of raw from CN and then tests it, processes it and packages it into the pens and then distributes all around the world.
RetCurious
Explorer
Jano says there are 2 sources in China for the raw peptides in his Lab FAQ.
Jellybelly54
Explorer
Lots of great answers to common questions in that article
Thanks for sharing!!
krsct
Explorer
Great reference. Thanks for this!
Nerker
Explorer
That's a great document.
joseblo
Explorer
It's a nice write up of the interview, but note that he says there are likely 2 sources for Reta (one of the newer and more complex peptides). His explanation make sense too, that it's all about the cost efficiency of an established manufacturing process. The older, rarer, and just less complex peptides (eg GHK-Cu) likely have many more manufacturers, as do Sema, and likely Tirz. A chemist can call a number of different raws manufacturers in China (who may also lyophilize) to manufacture small volume peptides (<100gr). Of course it won't be $0.2-0.5/mg.
FilterOrDeath
Explorer
So you just go straight from reconstituting to injecting, no filtering between those 2? I'm always surprised when people don't.
Calm Logic
Explorer
FilterOrDeath said:
I'm always surprised when people don't.
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To play devil's advocate: How many airlocks to get to your ISO 5 cleanroom?
The concern many have with filtering is that one may be creating a bigger problem:
After filtering my last couple vials I just have the feeling that with all the steps(multiple syringes, multiple pokes, new vials/carts) just increases my chances of introducing contamination. I'm betting someone real smart could do some cool probabilities. I'd be betting that would show it to be a wash unless you were taking some extreme steps(or have access) with a sterile working environment.
FilterOrDeath
Explorer
Yes I'm still surprised when people don't filter. So I ask and try and add some levity to the question because I am curious. And a lot of the new people don't know about it so never considered it as an option to implement or ignore.
I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.
There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them. We all decide what we are willing to try so it's good to have the information to make that decision.
I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.
There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them.
We all decide what we are willing to try so it's good to have the information to make that decision.Not surprising that someone with practical lab experience is a proponentFilterOrDeath said:
Yes I'm still surprised when people don't filter. So I ask and try and add some levity to the question because I am curious. And a lot of the new people don't know about it so never considered it as an option to implement or ignore.
I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.
There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them.
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. I have all the materials and just did it for the first time last week. Now I would consider myself relatively competent in most things. I can read, digest and apply. Background in electronics now working in water quality. I thought it went okay, only wasted one needle and one barrel by not following procedure. Should be smoother next time.That being said after my first experience filtering if you were to do some type of meta analysis of everyone out there reconstituting their own peps, I'm pretty confident that we are probably doing more harm than good. Just the sheer amount of additional supplies , each one is another "point of failure". So on the assumption of a suspect vial I'm going to count on my technique and expertise as well as assuming the sterility of each additional component is "good" while assuming my peptide vial is "bad". That seems like a poor assumption. Especially with my technique and expertise which is extremely lacking.
If I had years of sterile lab technique experience and training, filtering would be automatic. For the rest of us I think it is much more nuanced. I will continue to use up all the supplies that I currently have but will I continue after that? Probably not, unless @IshimaruKenta comes down with dysentery again.