Testosterone replacement

[Volkswagen57]

woundcarping said:

Volkswagen57 said:

slick1 said:

Volkswagen57 said:

slick1 said:

Volkswagen57 said:

tendency said:

Volkswagen57 said:

Around July or August of last year, I began TRT with my PCP. When I told them that the 200mg every other week prescription has me feeling terrible by week 2, I wasn't happy with how my PCP responded. So I went with UGL test and now inject 250mg/week, divided between Monday and Thursday. Blood was drawn today, 48hrs after my most recent pin. I'm eager to find out my total, free test, and estradiol numbers. I continue to receive my prescribed testosterone, though right now I'm building up a stockpile of it for travel.

A 125mg dose taken 2x per week is quite a lot of testosterone. The fact that your hematocrit is elevated shows that the amount you're on is excessive.

It's only slightly over the reference range. Also, the January blood draw I was referring to was during a period when I was on 200mg every other week. After that, I switched to 125mg 2x/week. My results from yesterday show my hermatocrit has gone down a bit, from 52.5 (January result) to 51.7 (yesterday result).

A weekly dose of 250 mg isn't TRT—that's the kind of protocol bodybuilders ran 30-40yrs back. Elevated hematocrit is risky, and as you get near the danger zone you'll begin to "FEEL" it. You get sluggish, there's a sort of pressure inside your head, and once you're right at the edge, your whole body can turn itchy and odd whenever you exert yourself. Watch out for that—a stroke is a real possibility!

Wouldn't this depend entirely on where your numbers sit? My plan is to lower my dose if my free levels end up above the reference range.

The reality isn't straightforward—you could say both yes and no. Because testosterone's dosing follows its half-life, total T levels rise gradually as time goes on. When it comes to free T, SHBG is the deciding factor, and SHBG itself is influenced by a wide range of other variables. My advice: locate a competent physician. Those over-the-phone diagnosis services may be handy, but I'm not particularly keen on them.

What steps should I take to find a urologist whose management would be better than what my PCP is doing now?

Is your situation unusual in any way?

My circumstances aren't particularly unusual, so I'd say no.

 

[slick1]

soapysnake said:

slick1 said:

soapysnake said:

Really enjoying this discussion. Are there any younger guys here? I'm 30, have 4 kids, and recently had a vasectomy. I realize I'm still young, but my total test came back at 460 and free at 10, and I'm strongly considering 100-120mg/week to address my energy problems and get a bit of a gym boost. I do lifting plus cardio 6 days a week and sit around 13-14% bf at 6'1 192lb. I already gave enclo a shot and hated it. My numbers went way up but I felt worse than I did before. It's been a while since I stopped enclo and I still have a lot of low t symptoms despite a solid diet (as solid as it can be with 4 young kids) and about 7 hours of sleep each night. I know I'll end up on it at some point. I also work at a clinic, so provider visits, labs, and test cost me nothing. My question is, would starting this young be a dumb move?

Have you thought about HCG? It could get your testicles working again.

Enclo got them going. Total reached 1100, free hit 23. But estrogen fluctuated wildly while on enclo, and it might have led to some thyroid problems too. I didn't like having less control than I would with T injections.

Compared with enclo, hcg ought to hold steadier, and it likely won't disturb the thyroid, though it could still have an impact on estro.

 

[slick1]

Volkswagen57 said:

slick1 said:

Volkswagen57 said:

slick1 said:

Volkswagen57 said:

tendency said:

Volkswagen57 said:

Around July or August of last year, I began TRT with my PCP. When I told them that the 200mg every other week prescription has me feeling terrible by week 2, I wasn't happy with how my PCP responded. So I went with UGL test and now inject 250mg/week, divided between Monday and Thursday. Blood was drawn today, 48hrs after my most recent pin. I'm eager to find out my total, free test, and estradiol numbers. I continue to receive my prescribed testosterone, though right now I'm building up a stockpile of it for travel.

A 125mg dose taken 2x per week is quite a lot of testosterone. The fact that your hematocrit is elevated shows that the amount you're on is excessive.

It's only slightly over the reference range. Also, the January blood draw I was referring to was during a period when I was on 200mg every other week. After that, I switched to 125mg 2x/week. My results from yesterday show my hermatocrit has gone down a bit, from 52.5 (January result) to 51.7 (yesterday result).

A weekly dose of 250 mg isn't TRT—that's the kind of protocol bodybuilders ran 30-40yrs back. Elevated hematocrit is risky, and as you get near the danger zone you'll begin to "FEEL" it. You get sluggish, there's a sort of pressure inside your head, and once you're right at the edge, your whole body can turn itchy and odd whenever you exert yourself. Watch out for that—a stroke is a real possibility!

Wouldn't this depend entirely on where your numbers sit? My plan is to lower my dose if my free levels end up above the reference range.

The reality isn't straightforward—you could say both yes and no. Because testosterone's dosing follows its half-life, total T levels rise gradually as time goes on. When it comes to free T, SHBG is the deciding factor, and SHBG itself is influenced by a wide range of other variables. My advice: locate a competent physician. Those over-the-phone diagnosis services may be handy, but I'm not particularly keen on them.

What steps should I take to find a urologist whose management would be better than what my PCP is doing now?

For what you're aiming to achieve, a urologist might not be the ideal route. Plenty of them are strongly against TRT or HRT. Doing a LOT of research on your own is your best option. Questions like these can't really be answered by folks on these forums, or at least not with any real integrity.

 

[d0se1]

Volkswagen57 said:

slick1 said:

Volkswagen57 said:

slick1 said:

Volkswagen57 said:

tendency said:

Volkswagen57 said:

Around July or August of last year, I began TRT with my PCP. When I told them that the 200mg every other week prescription has me feeling terrible by week 2, I wasn't happy with how my PCP responded. So I went with UGL test and now inject 250mg/week, divided between Monday and Thursday. Blood was drawn today, 48hrs after my most recent pin. I'm eager to find out my total, free test, and estradiol numbers. I continue to receive my prescribed testosterone, though right now I'm building up a stockpile of it for travel.

A 125mg dose taken 2x per week is quite a lot of testosterone. The fact that your hematocrit is elevated shows that the amount you're on is excessive.

It's only slightly over the reference range. Also, the January blood draw I was referring to was during a period when I was on 200mg every other week. After that, I switched to 125mg 2x/week. My results from yesterday show my hermatocrit has gone down a bit, from 52.5 (January result) to 51.7 (yesterday result).

A weekly dose of 250 mg isn't TRT—that's the kind of protocol bodybuilders ran 30-40yrs back. Elevated hematocrit is risky, and as you get near the danger zone you'll begin to "FEEL" it. You get sluggish, there's a sort of pressure inside your head, and once you're right at the edge, your whole body can turn itchy and odd whenever you exert yourself. Watch out for that—a stroke is a real possibility!

Wouldn't this depend entirely on where your numbers sit? My plan is to lower my dose if my free levels end up above the reference range.

The reality isn't straightforward—you could say both yes and no. Because testosterone's dosing follows its half-life, total T levels rise gradually as time goes on. When it comes to free T, SHBG is the deciding factor, and SHBG itself is influenced by a wide range of other variables. My advice: locate a competent physician. Those over-the-phone diagnosis services may be handy, but I'm not particularly keen on them.

What steps should I take to find a urologist whose management would be better than what my PCP is doing now?

I came across a provider whose focus is men's sexual health. Paying just $8 per month for my test is a great feeling.

 

[tendency]

Volkswagen57 said:

tendency said:

soapysnake said:

Really enjoying this discussion. Are there any younger guys here? I'm 30, have 4 kids, and recently had a vasectomy. I realize I'm still young, but my total test came back at 460 and free at 10, and I'm strongly considering 100-120mg/week to address my energy problems and get a bit of a gym boost. I do lifting plus cardio 6 days a week and sit around 13-14% bf at 6'1 192lb. I already gave enclo a shot and hated it. My numbers went way up but I felt worse than I did before. It's been a while since I stopped enclo and I still have a lot of low t symptoms despite a solid diet (as solid as it can be with 4 young kids) and about 7 hours of sleep each night. I know I'll end up on it at some point. I also work at a clinic, so provider visits, labs, and test cost me nothing. My question is, would starting this young be a dumb move?

In my opinion, yes — beginning at that age is unwise, unless you are 110% sure that a primary or secondary low T problem exists. It's possible you do.

That said, something I wish had been shared with me back in my mid 30s: locate a capable men's health urologist or endocrinologist, and attempt to figure out what is behind the seemingly low T. If you can avoid committing to a lifelong drug protocol, you don't want to do it — just my .02 cents.

Too often people rush to start T without first doing the proper due diligence.

I'd really like to know how you go about locating a urologist. For insurance to pay, is a referral from a primary care doctor required?

That is the $1,000,000 question. With solid insurance, a PCP referral is a reasonable place to begin. Your network decides whether that lands you with a urologist or an endocrinologist.

From what I've seen, the top-tier options don't accept insurance at all, so you're looking at paying out of pocket, and that runs you $$$. Tracking them down can be a challenge It comes down to putting in the leg work — making calls, chasing referrals, and so on. In a bigger metropolitan area, it shouldn't be too difficult to locate one.

 

[TacoLifter420]

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

 

[Calm Logic]

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Taking orals is something beginners do wrong. Stay away from orals no matter what, because they can harm the liver through the drug itself. Even when I used Anavar sublingually, my liver enzymes shot up badly (ALT hit 481, AST hit 158). That put my ALT at 10 times the normal level. It also took a long while before things returned to baseline. Before that, my enzymes had been fine. For other men, Anavar can instead destroy their lipids.

The smallest downside comes from simply raising test, rather than jumping to primo, mast, and similar compounds. Your bloodwork might show estrogen on the high side, yet that is not a problem as long as the estrogen-to-test ratio sits somewhere from 1:10 to 1:20. HCG is another route for lifting testosterone, though it can call for a low-dose AI at times, or else a reduction in dose. When estrogen is low, the heart and cardiovascular system (along with tendons and joints) fare worse than when estrogen is high.

These days I steer clear of everything, including TRT.

 

[slick1]

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Anavar tends to be dry and fairly clean. If you're someone who holds water easily, deca can make you balloon up like a parade float, and stacking it with test will also push your hematocrit higher. For strength, I'd say oxandrolone is far superior, though it doesn't do as much for size. That said, like any oral, going overboard can be hard on the liver. I'm a fan! I've never taken it sublingually, and I didn't even realize that was an option.

 

[slick1]

Calm Logic said:

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Taking orals is something beginners do wrong. Stay away from orals no matter what, because they can harm the liver through the drug itself. Even when I used Anavar sublingually, my liver enzymes shot up badly (ALT hit 481, AST hit 158). That put my ALT at 10 times the normal level. It also took a long while before things returned to baseline. Before that, my enzymes had been fine. For other men, Anavar can instead destroy their lipids.

The smallest downside comes from simply raising test, rather than jumping to primo, mast, and similar compounds. Your bloodwork might show estrogen on the high side, yet that is not a problem as long as the estrogen-to-test ratio sits somewhere from 1:10 to 1:20. HCG is another route for lifting testosterone, though it can call for a low-dose AI at times, or else a reduction in dose. When estrogen is low, the heart and cardiovascular system (along with tendons and joints) fare worse than when estrogen is high.

These days I steer clear of everything, including TRT.

Each person's response to these compounds varies. Across the years I've stacked ox into a lot of cycles, and it's never caused me issues. Possibly a minor bump in enzymes once an 8 or 10 wk run wrapped up, but nowhere near the severity you're describing.

 

[Calm Logic]

This isn't the right venue for your pro-steroid posts grounded in bro science. Meso is where you belong.

If you insist on being foolish, then by the time your cycle wraps up—or your self-abuse cruise does—you ought to at least have memorized the first names of every person at Labcorp.

Even when the handful of labs you run come back looking fairly normal, don't bother speaking again until you bring heart imaging.

For the sake of harm reduction:


https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/why-use-orals-first-cycle-or-at-all.134421927/post-3213781


"Most people say test and Hgh are probably the healthiest since they are natural hormones that our body recognizes"

"If I could revisit 27 year old me I would tell him for that I wanted to do test is all I needed...Other compounds are best suited for competitors."

 

[Such1943]

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Take your test dose up in small steps until your E2 feels right for you. For some guys, lower is better; for others, higher works. I personally feel best sitting at the upper end of the range. If you go past that point and would rather skip an AI, you can bring in Primo, Mast, or EQ to keep E2 in check. The catch is that you will need routine bloodwork to track how your E2 responds for every mg of that second compound. That is exactly where things start to slide. This summer I plan to cruise on 200/200 Test/Mast. I had bloods drawn today, and next week once the results are back I will share what this absurd cycle did. I will do my best to stay on topic and not drift into Meso territory.

 

[Calm Logic]

Such1943 said:

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Take your test dose up in small steps until your E2 feels right for you. For some guys, lower is better; for others, higher works. I personally feel best sitting at the upper end of the range. If you go past that point and would rather skip an AI, you can bring in Primo, Mast, or EQ to keep E2 in check. The catch is that you will need routine bloodwork to track how your E2 responds for every mg of that second compound. That is exactly where things start to slide. This summer I plan to cruise on 200/200 Test/Mast. I had bloods drawn today, and next week once the results are back I will share what this absurd cycle did. I will do my best to stay on topic and not drift into Meso territory.

Go through the HAARLEM study. Keep reading additional studies until your eyes feel parched. Otherwise, carry on with the act and the excuses that you have everything under control.

Compared to you all, the natural lifters look like brilliant minds.

 

[Such1943]

Yeah, I realize that what I'm doing is reckless. I'm only just smart enough to understand that I have to scale it back. I came across the study, and I'll give it a read.

 

[TacoLifter420]

Calm Logic said:

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Taking orals is something beginners do wrong. Stay away from orals no matter what, because they can harm the liver through the drug itself. Even when I used Anavar sublingually, my liver enzymes shot up badly (ALT hit 481, AST hit 158). That put my ALT at 10 times the normal level. It also took a long while before things returned to baseline. Before that, my enzymes had been fine. For other men, Anavar can instead destroy their lipids.

The smallest downside comes from simply raising test, rather than jumping to primo, mast, and similar compounds. Your bloodwork might show estrogen on the high side, yet that is not a problem as long as the estrogen-to-test ratio sits somewhere from 1:10 to 1:20. HCG is another route for lifting testosterone, though it can call for a low-dose AI at times, or else a reduction in dose. When estrogen is low, the heart and cardiovascular system (along with tendons and joints) fare worse than when estrogen is high.

These days I steer clear of everything, including TRT.

That's surprising—I had no idea it could climb that high.

Still, I'm not inexperienced with TRT. I've been on it for close to 2 years now.

 

[TacoLifter420]

Such1943 said:

TacoLifter420 said:

Anyone here using compounds besides test?

I gave deca a shot for a stretch and it did seem to ease some nagging elbow problems. Eventually though, my BP began climbing, so I cut it out.

My trt guy can also hook me up with Anavar — thinking about using it sublingually as a pre-workout.

Take your test dose up in small steps until your E2 feels right for you. For some guys, lower is better; for others, higher works. I personally feel best sitting at the upper end of the range. If you go past that point and would rather skip an AI, you can bring in Primo, Mast, or EQ to keep E2 in check. The catch is that you will need routine bloodwork to track how your E2 responds for every mg of that second compound. That is exactly where things start to slide. This summer I plan to cruise on 200/200 Test/Mast. I had bloods drawn today, and next week once the results are back I will share what this absurd cycle did. I will do my best to stay on topic and not drift into Meso territory.

At 175mg per week of test, things are going well for me. My total sits near 900 and E is roughly 40.

Really, I'm mainly wondering what approaches other people have taken; for the time being I intend to stay within TRT levels. Should that shift, I hold a membership at Meso and will go further into it over there if this forum considers the subject outside its scope.

On top of that, blood work gets done every 2-3 months, and ever since I began TRT along with Tirz, every one of my markers has shifted into the normal range. The hormones improve how I feel, and dropping a shit ton of weight definitely benefited my overall health. Becoming a body builder or getting huge isn't my aim. My goal is to walk around at about 12% body fat, which ought to put me at 185 to 190 pounds. Currently I'm near 16%, still losing inches off my waist and roughly half a pound each week. Since I'm only in a 200-300 calorie deficit, I've actually gained some strength.

 

[tendency]

soapysnake said:

tendency said:

soapysnake said:

tendency said:

soapysnake said:

Really enjoying this discussion. Are there any younger guys here? I'm 30, have 4 kids, and recently had a vasectomy. I realize I'm still young, but my total test came back at 460 and free at 10, and I'm strongly considering 100-120mg/week to address my energy problems and get a bit of a gym boost. I do lifting plus cardio 6 days a week and sit around 13-14% bf at 6'1 192lb. I already gave enclo a shot and hated it. My numbers went way up but I felt worse than I did before. It's been a while since I stopped enclo and I still have a lot of low t symptoms despite a solid diet (as solid as it can be with 4 young kids) and about 7 hours of sleep each night. I know I'll end up on it at some point. I also work at a clinic, so provider visits, labs, and test cost me nothing. My question is, would starting this young be a dumb move?

In my opinion, yes — beginning at that age is unwise, unless you are 110% sure that a primary or secondary low T problem exists. It's possible you do.

That said, something I wish had been shared with me back in my mid 30s: locate a capable men's health urologist or endocrinologist, and attempt to figure out what is behind the seemingly low T. If you can avoid committing to a lifelong drug protocol, you don't want to do it — just my .02 cents.

Too often people rush to start T without first doing the proper due diligence.

I hear you completely. For the past 1.5 years I've been attempting to raise my low T without medication. My starting point was roughly 380. Through improved recovery habits, I managed to bring it up to 460 on my own. Once 6+ months had passed, I gave enclo a shot. Sure, 460 isn't exactly rock bottom, but I'm just tired of constantly feeling drained.

Have you thought about the possibility that fatigue might stem from any number of other underlying problems, and that those same problems could also be dragging your T levels down below where they should be?

Have you also thought about seeing a good naturopath?

Our clinic has a naturopathic MD on staff. I haven't had a visit with her so far. Another doctor was handling my care, though I can give her a shot at my next appointment. Also, yes — 80+ biomarkers have been showing up across my lab panels. Every 3 months I've been running them, working on getting every one of them where I want it.

If it were me, I'd go the naturopath route—gifted NDs have been the most helpful for me when dealing with problems like this. Traditional western medicine misses a lot.