Tapering Down -- I Swear I Looked Through the Reta Forum (now with useful details)

Nerker

Nerker

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Hi,

I've been running 4mg alongside a 300 calorie deficit for 8 months, and it's starting to wear on me. My question: is there a settled protocol for stepping the dose down gradually? I really did search first. Thanks, Nerky
 
Nerker said:

Hi,

I've been running 4mg alongside a 300 calorie deficit for 8 months, and it's starting to wear on me. My question: is there a settled protocol for stepping the dose down gradually? I really did search first. Thanks, Nerky
Click to expand...
Lower it to what exactly -- your dosage? Is eating a problem for you? I need more details. You could consider 2mg or 1mg taken twice weekly. It's difficult to figure out what you're actually asking.
 
If you've shed more weight than you wanted and eating has become impossible, then you should titrate down.

On the other hand, if there's still weight you want to lose but 8 months in, staying in a calorie deficit has started to feel like too much, then the move is to titrate up.
 
My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
 
Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
My move would be to take it down by 1mg and hold at that level for 2-4 weeks, to find out whether 3mg does the job for you. Should food noise and undereating still be a problem at that point, then go down another 1mg.
 
Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
Lowering your dose follows the same principle as raising it: retatrutide blood levels reach steady state 4 weeks after staying on the same dose. That's the guideline I'd follow.
 
At lower doses in particular, I'd argue reta does not handle food noise all that well. My approach would be to lower the reta and then stack in a modest dose of tirz, or perhaps sema.
 
ladyj779 said:

At lower doses in particular, I'd argue reta does not handle food noise all that well. My approach would be to lower the reta and then stack in a modest dose of tirz, or perhaps sema.
Click to expand...
I had Sema or Cag in mind. What do you think about Cag?
 
Nerker said:

I had Sema or Cag in mind. What do you think about Cag?
Click to expand...
A large number of people end up feeling extremely wiped out on it. There's also a group that appears to develop a rapid "immunity" to what it does. It'll seem to be working for 2 weeks or so, and then no matter how much you titrate upward, nothing changes.

I still have a vial sitting around from a very early purchase (back when I was briefly in my single vial era, clearly), but it never got used and I'm honestly not that eager to give it a shot--my guess is I picked it up about 2 weeks prior to that whole fibrils discussion blowing up.
 
Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
My own story is pretty close: 32lbs gone since March, and I've also been sitting at 4mg/wk for roughly 3 months.

Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
Between March and early September, my intake was 1800 cal/day.

Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
GH is part of my routine too, and my sleep is solid.

Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
To me, shaving off 0.5mg/wk is a smarter move than stacking yet another compound. In a lot of ways, I lean toward less being more.

That being said, I keep going back and forth on switching from 2mg reta twice weekly to 2mg reta plus 2mg tirz each week.

Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
How do you handle your sleep hygiene? Every night, weekends included, I'm in bed between 10:00-10:30.

I've also begun experimenting with SS-31, NAD+ and MOTS-c for the fatigue.

Nerker said:

My apologies everyone. I'm at work right now.

Back in Jan 26 I began at 2mg. 38lbs have come off. More weight loss isn't something I need.

3 months ago I worked my way up to 4mg. For the first 6 months I wasn't tired.

Right now my TDEE sits at 2400, and on an average day I take in 2100. Early on the TDEE was different, but even then it was a 300 calorie deficit on most days. That's how it's been since Jan.

My sleep got destroyed, though Tesamorelin repaired it. I figure that once I come off Tesa, I probably need to be on a lower RT dose too. Whether Tesa brings on daytime fatigue, I'm not sure. My sleep is great. Right now I'm in week 6 of 1mg each night.

What I want is to get to a point where I can eat at caloric neutrality without dealing with food noise. I'd settle at a (TBD) dose matching that picture. Could this be the spot where Cag comes in?

My thinking was to step down by .5mg. How many weeks to remain at the -.5mg level before going down another .5mg, I wasn't certain.

My diet is solid. I'm hitting the macro/micro. I suspect the 8 month deficit is now catching up to me. I do resistance 2x (and put on muscle), along with hiking and hydrate/electrolyte.

It feels like I have to titrate down and find out whether the fatigue clears up.

Bloods are fine. I'm curious whether the deficit pushed my SHBG up, since it's a bit high. I've run all the labs to try other goodies. Free T is low (7.5ng). Whether I had more energy before the RT, I can't recall. I'm curious whether 8 months of living in a deficit tanked my Free T.

Thanks,

Nerky
Click to expand...
Blood work gets thrown off by deficits. After you nail down your maintenance, get bloods done again.

As you keep working through this, keep posting -- I want to see how your results and experiences stack up against mine.
 
Sleep is in good shape with GH. I get 7 / 7.5 hours. 10p-5a. That's my own pick. I'm up and doing stuff for 2 hours before I start getting ready for work. 2-3 times a week I'll snooze until 5:30a.

CPAP is in use, though my numbers show no obstructions overnight and I'm not at max flow. AHI is %1.

I'll report back as things go.

Today was pin day. Plan is 3mg for 4 weeks and then I'll find out whether I bite my own hand off or hold up a Baskin Robbins.
 
Nerker said:

Sleep is in good shape with GH. I get 7 / 7.5 hours. 10p-5a. That's my own pick. I'm up and doing stuff for 2 hours before I start getting ready for work. 2-3 times a week I'll snooze until 5:30a.

CPAP is in use, though my numbers show no obstructions overnight and I'm not at max flow. AHI is %1.

I'll report back as things go.

Today was pin day. Plan is 3mg for 4 weeks and then I'll find out whether I bite my own hand off or hold up a Baskin Robbins.
Click to expand...
Respect for keeping a steady sleep routine. The CPAP detail looks like something significant that was left out earlier. Since others might have useful input to offer regarding CPAP use, credit to you for including it.
 
Is it possible to consume more while you're on the dose you're taking now?...

I'm not clear on your actual goal here...lowering Reta, bringing in Cagril

Assuming you've hit your target weight, my approach (and the one I actually followed) would be to hold the dose where it is and move up on food instead...heck, one weekend ago at a birthday bash I had a good time and put on 2-3 pounds...and I've mostly dropped back down since....lol

To be fair, this past weekend I added some sema to give a boost to my Thursday night reta pin that was falling behind...plus I already had some on hand and LadyJ praised sema as a solid GLP add on.... 👍 😎 ❤️
 
Flash-BCR said:

Is it possible to consume more while you're on the dose you're taking now?...

I'm not clear on your actual goal here...lowering Reta, bringing in Cagril

Assuming you've hit your target weight, my approach (and the one I actually followed) would be to hold the dose where it is and move up on food instead...heck, one weekend ago at a birthday bash I had a good time and put on 2-3 pounds...and I've mostly dropped back down since....lol

To be fair, this past weekend I added some sema to give a boost to my Thursday night reta pin that was falling behind...plus I already had some on hand and LadyJ praised sema as a solid GLP add on.... 👍 😎 ❤️
Click to expand...
What I'm after is getting rid of the tiredness that I believe comes from staying in a deficit.

Beyond that, I'm looking ahead to tapering the dose down, since my sleep has gone haywire on 4mg RT, and I can't stay on the Tesa train indefinitely. Out of 12 weeks in this cycle, I'm on week 5.

Eating more is possible for me. Today I was 100 cal above TDEE.

What I wind up adding is organic whole grain bread with a tbsp of peanut butter, or one more banana alongside greek yogurt.
 
Flash-BCR said:

Is it possible to consume more while you're on the dose you're taking now?...

I'm not clear on your actual goal here...lowering Reta, bringing in Cagril

Assuming you've hit your target weight, my approach (and the one I actually followed) would be to hold the dose where it is and move up on food instead...heck, one weekend ago at a birthday bash I had a good time and put on 2-3 pounds...and I've mostly dropped back down since....lol

To be fair, this past weekend I added some sema to give a boost to my Thursday night reta pin that was falling behind...plus I already had some on hand and LadyJ praised sema as a solid GLP add on.... 👍 😎 ❤️
Click to expand...
Flash --Sema : Do you take a low dose to work around the trough?
 
Nerker said:

What I'm after is getting rid of the tiredness that I believe comes from staying in a deficit.

Beyond that, I'm looking ahead to tapering the dose down, since my sleep has gone haywire on 4mg RT, and I can't stay on the Tesa train indefinitely. Out of 12 weeks in this cycle, I'm on week 5.

Eating more is possible for me. Today I was 100 cal above TDEE.

What I wind up adding is organic whole grain bread with a tbsp of peanut butter, or one more banana alongside greek yogurt.
Click to expand...
My reaction to GLPs might be far more unusual than what most people go through...Right from the start, once I take my dose, my belly feels full, and I have no real urge to eat beyond a small piece of chicken plus a protein drink or two...maybe a handful of mixed nuts or two, something like that...and truthfully, that's all there is...the weight drops at a sensible pace and for me it never feels like effort....none at all.....

I think it's great that folks are running all these intense diets and routines, and jobs, and everything else....but simply not caring much about food did the job for me..... 👍
 
Nerker said:

Flash --Sema : Do you take a low dose to work around the trough?
Click to expand...
Lol!....That tracks, honestly...My tirz and reta are split at 5mg each...The reta was a recent addition, and just like others have said, its appetite suppression isn't as strong as tirz's....so instead of titrating the reta upward... I walked to the freezer, grabbed a kit of sema 5mg, and pinned .25mg of it, exactly as Dr Wanda had prescribed to "cheat around the trough" like you mentioned....

Boy howdy!....sema doesn't mess around, and it gives me the same appetite suppression tirz gave me back when I first began it...I dig it muchly, and I likely wouldn't have given it a shot if I hadn't come across some of LadyJ's recommendations about it....

So yeah, once more, sema works as a nice bridge across the gaps....cheapest GLP too....👍😎
 
For roughly 8 or 9 weeks, my sema dose sat at .13. Only in the past week did I bump it to .25, which comes on top of 3mg reta, and I just raised my Tirz to 10 as well.

As for tesa, my honest take is that you can stay on it indefinitely. My own plan is to keep running sermorelin at a very low dose (.15mg) with no end date.
 
ladyj779 said:

For roughly 8 or 9 weeks, my sema dose sat at .13. Only in the past week did I bump it to .25, which comes on top of 3mg reta, and I just raised my Tirz to 10 as well.

As for tesa, my honest take is that you can stay on it indefinitely. My own plan is to keep running sermorelin at a very low dose (.15mg) with no end date.
Click to expand...
Tesa showed up at my place a week or two back, and I figure I'll give it a go around the new year.... 👍
 
Nerker said:

What I'm after is getting rid of the tiredness that I believe comes from staying in a deficit.

Beyond that, I'm looking ahead to tapering the dose down, since my sleep has gone haywire on 4mg RT, and I can't stay on the Tesa train indefinitely. Out of 12 weeks in this cycle, I'm on week 5.

Eating more is possible for me. Today I was 100 cal above TDEE.

What I wind up adding is organic whole grain bread with a tbsp of peanut butter, or one more banana alongside greek yogurt.
Click to expand...

A deficit of 300 calories really isn't all that big. Since December I've been running a deficit averaging 1100 calories (worked out from fat/lean mass loss), and fatigue hasn't been a problem.

Sort of like Flash, I just eat whatever I want and let the medicine do the heavy lifting. It's simple, and sticking with it over the long haul doesn't look like it will be a problem. Calories aren't something I track. Yesterday I had 3 or 4 protein shakes plus 3 slices of Pepperoni Lover's pizza.
 
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