Starting TRT for muscle — where should I begin?

[GiffMeReta]

I've been on Reta for a while now and the dose is still climbing. What I want is to make the most of the weight I'm carrying at the moment and add some muscle to it.

By all accounts TRT is the undisputed king for exactly that. I'm too chicken to sign up for a lifetime of depending on it, though. Muscle is what I need regardless - arms in particular.

Have I got the dependence side of this roughly right? And is there a supplement, a peptide or a stack I should be considering instead, one that keeps the long-term side effects to a minimum?

At the moment I lift weights and take whey, creatine and hydrolysed collagen. I keep reading and researching, but I am no bodybuilder - just a bloke carrying too much fat.

 

[5byfive]

1) Bloodwork first. 2) Have you ever trained seriously? If the answer is no and your levels come back fine, don't go there. Those easy newbie gains are still ahead of you. Years of serious lifting should come before you even think about it - close to a decade if you're young. Diet and training both need to be dialled in first, unless your levels are genuinely low.

 

[Don]

TRT would not be my move at a high body fat percentage. You're more likely to run into estrogen trouble even at lower TRT doses, and honestly the payoff is probably bigger if u simply wait, get leaner first, and build the muscle from there

From the sound of it ur a beginner anyway, which is a good thing in this case. New lifters can add muscle while dropping fat fairly readily, provided the training and the food are right

I would lift 3–4 times a week, heavy, working every muscle with hard sets taken close to failure. Failure is not the burn. It is the point where u genuinely cannot move the weight any further with good technique - it simply will not go up.

Keep the deficit small, nothing drastic, maybe 200–300 kcal. Walk around 10k steps a day and target roughly 2g protein per kg bodyweight.

As for carbs, I would put most of them around training - not because carbs are evil, but because that is when they do the most for performance and recovery. Beginning the day with a protein shake, or a big serving of protein with few carbs, also makes sense, particularly after 7–10 hours of sleep with nothing going in. Add not eating 3–4 hours before bed and u can easily be looking at 10–14 hours with no protein

Whey and creatine are both good choices already. Collagen is fine as well, joints and tendons especially, though it is not really a muscle-building supplement

TRT is not just another supplement. It shuts down ur natural production and can turn into a long-term commitment. So unless ur bloodwork clearly shows u need it, I would get leaner first, train hard, eat enough protein and squeeze those beginner gains for all they are worth

 

[Skidude]

Those last 2 posts look exactly right and answer your question well.

TRT is not what you mean unless you actually have Low T.

If muscle gains are what you are after, that question probably belongs in a thread of its own.

TRT is a commitment, and it helps if you are low. It was never designed for cycles.

Should blood work show you need it, the advice given in the posts above would still hold.

A few threads on this are running in the AAS forum at the moment, read here: /forums/source-hrt/

Searching the forums for adding muscle will give you more, etc..

 

[Mood]

Simply adding my voice to what has already been said. Don't jump on "TRT" just because you have heard of people getting results from it. I don't know your age, but unless a full hormone panel has been run and you know the numbers, my suggestion is to buckle down and keep chipping away with diet and exercise.

I had symptoms and got blood work done at 31 (278 was my test level at the time). TRT has been part of my life for the last 14 years, so I can say from experience that it is a long term commitment. It helped me, because I needed it. If your levels are already sufficient, the likely outcome is that you pick up the side effects, shut down your natural production and land back in the very spot you are in now.

Options exist (hcg, etc.) for kick starting your own production of test, particularly if you are still young enough for fertility to matter. But again, none of that is worth looking into until you know where you stand.

 

[Vash]

Define TRT…

Real TRT works wonders for someone with low testosterone. What gets called the "undisputed king", though, is blasting steroids. Lately the two have started to blur together. Calling 250mg/week trt really stretches the term. Even 200 is pushing it, depending on how you respond.

Get your levels tested before anything else, as others have said.

On the dependence question, there are ways to keep natural production going. For some people those are all that is needed. I have been on test for a few years now. I came off once with no trouble at all. Not everyone is like that.

If you do hop on... bloodwork, bloodwork, and more bloodwork.

 

[cujet]

I have been on TRT for close to 30 years, and 'none' is the reason. I would love to write a glowing account of how well it has gone, but the truth is that I only take it because I have to. Severe illness at 33 left my natural levels down around 25ng/dl. It has been a shit sandwich of epic proportions. Every single injection makes me cough. Androgel gives me skin trouble. Daily 20% T creme is what I settled on, being the only form I can put up with. It gets my levels to 700ng/dl. That 20% creme costs a fortune (the last batch ran me $475), brings its own secondary health problems, and drags along expensive labs, blood donations whenever hematocrit climbs too high, and so on.

Anything at all you can do to raise your own levels, do it. Have your girlfriend fool around with you, get you worked up, squat, you get the idea. Get your natural levels above 450 and you are golden. Beyond that is neither necessary nor better.

 

[5byfive]

cujet said:

I have been on TRT for close to 30 years, and 'none' is the reason. I would love to write a glowing account of how well it has gone, but the truth is that I only take it because I have to. Severe illness at 33 left my natural levels down around 25ng/dl. It has been a shit sandwich of epic proportions. Every single injection makes me cough. Androgel gives me skin trouble. Daily 20% T creme is what I settled on, being the only form I can put up with. It gets my levels to 700ng/dl. That 20% creme costs a fortune (the last batch ran me $475), brings its own secondary health problems, and drags along expensive labs, blood donations whenever hematocrit climbs too high, and so on.

Anything at all you can do to raise your own levels, do it. Have your girlfriend fool around with you, get you worked up, squat, you get the idea. Get your natural levels above 450 and you are golden. Beyond that is neither necessary nor better.

That reads like a reaction to the carrier oil. Have you run both cypionate and enanthate? The two generally come in different oils (cypionate is normally suspended in cottonseed oil - thin, easy flowing, absorbed readily. Enanthate usually sits in sesame oil (per Gemini)). And have you tried both IM and Sub-Q? Lumps under the skin are a problem for some people on Sub-Q, in which case smaller doses taken more often may be needed (which will give you the best results regardless).

 

[TacoLifter420]

Get all of the following checked first - we want to confirm you are actually hypogonadal, not simply metabolically run down. If you are genuinely hypogonadal, nothing sold over the counter is going to put that right. If you are not, then getting leaner, building muscle and moving more will all lift your natural T levels.

Either way: nutrition dialled in, training dialled in, cardio every day, and cut the alcohol back or drop it altogether.

Ask specifically for the sensitive estradiol assay, not the standard one.

• Total and Free Testosterone: Covers both the overall amount circulating in your blood and the portion that is unbound and therefore available for your body to use.
  
• Luteinizing Hormone (LH): Signals from the pituitary that tell the testes to make testosterone. When it comes back high, the problem sits in the testes (primary); low or normal readings instead point at the pituitary
  
• Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH): Another pituitary signal, this one driving sperm production. As with LH, it separates primary from secondary causes.
  
• Prolactin: When prolactin runs high it can shut down testosterone production. Including it helps exclude pituitary tumours or other pituitary disorders.
  
• Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin (SHBG): A binding protein for testosterone. Where SHBG sits changes how much free, usable testosterone is actually available to you.
  
• Estradiol (Estrogen): Run to confirm the balance is right and to catch testosterone converting into estrogen too quickly.
  
• Thyroid Panel (TSH, T3, T4): An underactive thyroid can look a great deal like hypogonadism, and it moves SHBG too.

 

[quicksilver80]

^that is the post to read. Whether it comes out primary or secondary decides your next move. Hcg and enclomiphene are on the table too, whatever the many who turn their nose up at them say, as against simply flooring the pedal with trt or going to orals such as var alongside a blocker and regular bloods. The whole thing turns on what you plan to do down the line and whether kids are in the picture. Have fun, stay safe. Don't let big roid get you down. Literally

 

[TacoLifter420]

Something worth weighing up: long-term health has nothing to do with quick fixes or instant gratification. Chasing those is how most of us ended up in poor health to begin with.

In my view the winning move is a solid long-term plan you can actually stay on.

Eat well, lift, do cardio, cut the alcohol. Begin small and let the momentum build.

Being in shape is something you rent rather than own, and the rent falls due every single day!

 

[cujet]

5byfive said:

cujet said:

I have been on TRT for close to 30 years, and 'none' is the reason. I would love to write a glowing account of how well it has gone, but the truth is that I only take it because I have to. Severe illness at 33 left my natural levels down around 25ng/dl. It has been a shit sandwich of epic proportions. Every single injection makes me cough. Androgel gives me skin trouble. Daily 20% T creme is what I settled on, being the only form I can put up with. It gets my levels to 700ng/dl. That 20% creme costs a fortune (the last batch ran me $475), brings its own secondary health problems, and drags along expensive labs, blood donations whenever hematocrit climbs too high, and so on.

Anything at all you can do to raise your own levels, do it. Have your girlfriend fool around with you, get you worked up, squat, you get the idea. Get your natural levels above 450 and you are golden. Beyond that is neither necessary nor better.

That reads like a reaction to the carrier oil. Have you run both cypionate and enanthate? The two generally come in different oils (cypionate is normally suspended in cottonseed oil - thin, easy flowing, absorbed readily. Enanthate usually sits in sesame oil (per Gemini)). And have you tried both IM and Sub-Q? Lumps under the skin are a problem for some people on Sub-Q, in which case smaller doses taken more often may be needed (which will give you the best results regardless).

Your post and the suggestions in it are exactly right. I have been through all of it. BTW, sub q does the job just as well as IM. The trouble in my case is injection site reactions that itch for weeks on end. No fun at all when T is going in every 3 days!

These days even the peptides leave me with itching, bright red reactions at the injection site. Reactions along these lines tend to build up over time, as the body works out how to respond. My dermatologist put me onto the creme after I had worked through so many problems. It began at 5%, went to 10%, then 20%. That progression looks like the right one.

Back to the OP. I cannot overstate how much it matters to protect your natural production. Travelling with T is barred in a great many places; it is comprehensively off limits. And you do not want to 'revert', on an international trip, to a worried old lady the moment your levels collapse.

 

[Sumblime81]

Get blood drawn and tested. If your numbers come back in range, I would not even entertain the idea. My own TRT start was at 40. What I noticed first was that the heavy weights would not shift any more. Recovery went to pieces. Sleep was poor. For most people leading a healthy life, none of this is needed before the 40s roll around.

The blood test may come back saying you need it. Either way, the fat has to come off before you begin. Otherwise your E2 is going to give you real trouble.

All the best to you!! Keep at it, mate! Anything worth having takes work!!!

 

[sfkid]

Hold off on any steroids until the weight is off, unless a proper diagnosis of low t says otherwise. Come back to me at around 15% body fat and then we can talk.

 

[woundcarping]

You need to establish where you are now - labs and symptoms - against where you want to end up. Labs come before any decision making.

There is definitely no "have to lose fat" rule standing in the way of treating low testosterone. A long cut is exactly when TRT earns its keep, holding on to lean mass.

I am 50lb lighter today than when I started 22 weeks ago. No E2 trouble at all (neither symptoms nor labs) on 120-180mg/week, and the lean mass I shed over that stretch was very low (DEXA measured).

 

[TacoLifter420]

woundcarping said:

You need to establish where you are now - labs and symptoms - against where you want to end up. Labs come before any decision making.

There is definitely no "have to lose fat" rule standing in the way of treating low testosterone. A long cut is exactly when TRT earns its keep, holding on to lean mass.

I am 50lb lighter today than when I started 22 weeks ago. No E2 trouble at all (neither symptoms nor labs) on 120-180mg/week, and the lean mass I shed over that stretch was very low (DEXA measured).

Same here - I began when I was almost 70 pounds above my current weight. My sense is that it protected a lot of the muscle I already had, and I was running a deep deficit while I stripped off most of the fat. Lucky for me I don't aromatise much estrogen. An aromatase inhibitor has never been needed.

The theme everyone here agrees on: get your bloodwork, then go through it carefully with a doc who specialises in TRT and take it from there.

 

[woundcarping]

TacoLifter420 said:

woundcarping said:

You need to establish where you are now - labs and symptoms - against where you want to end up. Labs come before any decision making.

There is definitely no "have to lose fat" rule standing in the way of treating low testosterone. A long cut is exactly when TRT earns its keep, holding on to lean mass.

I am 50lb lighter today than when I started 22 weeks ago. No E2 trouble at all (neither symptoms nor labs) on 120-180mg/week, and the lean mass I shed over that stretch was very low (DEXA measured).

Same here - I began when I was almost 70 pounds above my current weight. My sense is that it protected a lot of the muscle I already had, and I was running a deep deficit while I stripped off most of the fat. Lucky for me I don't aromatise much estrogen. An aromatase inhibitor has never been needed.

The theme everyone here agrees on: get your bloodwork, then go through it carefully with a doc who specialises in TRT and take it from there.

Nice. Between starting Tirz on 12/12/25 and starting TRT on 1/19/26 I dropped 15lb.

TacoLifter420 said:

woundcarping said:

You need to establish where you are now - labs and symptoms - against where you want to end up. Labs come before any decision making.

There is definitely no "have to lose fat" rule standing in the way of treating low testosterone. A long cut is exactly when TRT earns its keep, holding on to lean mass.

I am 50lb lighter today than when I started 22 weeks ago. No E2 trouble at all (neither symptoms nor labs) on 120-180mg/week, and the lean mass I shed over that stretch was very low (DEXA measured).

Same here - I began when I was almost 70 pounds above my current weight. My sense is that it protected a lot of the muscle I already had, and I was running a deep deficit while I stripped off most of the fat. Lucky for me I don't aromatise much estrogen. An aromatase inhibitor has never been needed.

The theme everyone here agrees on: get your bloodwork, then go through it carefully with a doc who specialises in TRT and take it from there.

Over the 1/30 to 6/3 stretch, less than 2lb of that was lean mass; the scale moved 39lb.

TacoLifter420 said:

woundcarping said:

You need to establish where you are now - labs and symptoms - against where you want to end up. Labs come before any decision making.

There is definitely no "have to lose fat" rule standing in the way of treating low testosterone. A long cut is exactly when TRT earns its keep, holding on to lean mass.

I am 50lb lighter today than when I started 22 weeks ago. No E2 trouble at all (neither symptoms nor labs) on 120-180mg/week, and the lean mass I shed over that stretch was very low (DEXA measured).

Same here - I began when I was almost 70 pounds above my current weight. My sense is that it protected a lot of the muscle I already had, and I was running a deep deficit while I stripped off most of the fat. Lucky for me I don't aromatise much estrogen. An aromatase inhibitor has never been needed.

The theme everyone here agrees on: get your bloodwork, then go through it carefully with a doc who specialises in TRT and take it from there.

Same here.

Estradiol opened at 13pg/ml and topped out at 26.2pg/ml while I was on 120mg/week. Raising the dose to 180mg/week brought Estradiol back down to 21pg/ml. Total test began at 239ng/dl and reached 775ng/dl on 180mg/week. Hematocrit was the one lab that would not play along, so I have come down to 150mg, which on early evidence has fixed it. My 8 week labs for this latest dose change are due next month.

 

[TacoLifter420]

Stacked on top of the effort I was already putting in, Tirzepatide and trt did wonders for me.

 

[Justatechdude]

The comment quality on this forum is absolutely top notch.

Definitely get labs. Do your homework. And enclomiphene or clomid are worth considering for boosting production instead of TRT (weaker, but better than nothing).

 

[lessthanhalf]

Exercise drives more muscle growth than any chemical or hormonal add on, by an enormous margin. Which is why the standard advice is training first, second and third before anything else gets considered.

Since you are already on a GLP, dropping weight will most likely bring your natural testosterone up as it goes.

Where symptoms of low testosterone are present - low libido, say - get your hormone levels checked. Check them even if there are none, for that matter. Then you know where you stand.

If test levels are fine, TRT will make little or no difference. Androgenic anabolic steroids taken above physiological levels can add muscle growth provided the training volume is there, but they are nowhere near free of adverse effects - the less discussed psychological and psychiatric ones included.