Sleep improves when you actually get some: an update

Jfrick11

Jfrick11

Explorer
Joined
Jan 19, 2025
Messages
157
Reaction score
0
Location
Mexico
During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
 
It’s wild that your sleep improved so fast from these. I’ve got all 3 on hand but haven’t begun any yet. Any assistance with getting proper sleep would be welcome. 30m of deep sleep would be a good result for me. Could you share how you dosed each one? Was there any sleep upside from only 1 of them, or did it take all 3 together to really work?
 
Jfrick11 said:

During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
Click to expand...

DSIP on its own, and DSIP combined with Epi given as a subcutaneous injection, didn't do anything good for me. Selank is something I still haven't tried, even though I have both it and Semax on hand.

How are you tracking your sleep? My device is an Oura Ring, and I've never managed a score above the mid 90's.
 
woundcarping said:

Jfrick11 said:

During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
Click to expand...

DSIP on its own, and DSIP combined with Epi given as a subcutaneous injection, didn't do anything good for me. Selank is something I still haven't tried, even though I have both it and Semax on hand.

How are you tracking your sleep? My device is an Oura Ring, and I've never managed a score above the mid 90's.
Click to expand...
As I keep reading..... I'm becoming convinced that the intranasal route matters. My tracking comes from a smart watch... it's the same device I've worn since round 1, so I trust the consistency. Here's last night
 
Jfrick11 said:

During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
Click to expand...

Is there a guide or a how-to for preparing those as intranasal sprays? I want to make sure the spray delivers the right dose. Thanks
 
Jfrick11 said:

During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
Click to expand...
For certain people these appear to be highly effective, while for plenty of others they barely do anything. In my case they didn’t help, though different approaches do. What I’ve taken away from this is that sleep solutions vary a lot from person to person. Nice that you landed on a combination that works for you!
 
Jfrick11 said:

During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
Click to expand...
I gave dsip a 7-day trial. My total sleep went up, but deep sleep dropped, and my sleeping rhr climbed even higher each night.

Still, Selank has my attention tho
 
phoenixthepomsky said:

It’s wild that your sleep improved so fast from these. I’ve got all 3 on hand but haven’t begun any yet. Any assistance with getting proper sleep would be welcome. 30m of deep sleep would be a good result for me. Could you share how you dosed each one? Was there any sleep upside from only 1 of them, or did it take all 3 together to really work?
Click to expand...
Glad to share.

DSIP/Selank

To start, the DSIP and Selank go into a single bottle together.

For DSIP, my cycle runs 8 weeks; Selank runs 4.

Because of that, I adjusted the concentration so that bottle #1 would cover the entire 4 weeks when both are combined. When the next month comes, that bottle will hold only DSIP for the remaining 4 weeks. The spray bottles I use are from Snoot.

  • One thing to keep in mind.....with the DSIP, I mixed a double batch, so it comes out to 10mg/6ml rather than the 5mg/3ml shown in the protocol below. That leaves me with a final concentration of:
    • 10 mg DSIP
    • 10 mg Selank
    • Combined in 6 mL total sterile saline
    • 1 spray = 167 mcg DSIP + 167 mcg Selank
    • 2 sprays = 334 mcg DSIP + 334 mcg Selank (✔️I use 2 sprays)
Epitalon:

  • For this one, I mix it in its own bottle.
  • 20 mg Epitalon
  • Add 4 mL sterile water

  • Concentration
  • 20 mg = 20,000 mcg
  • 20,000 mcg ÷ 4 mL = 5,000 mcg/mL
  • Standard nasal spray = 0.1 mL
  • 1 spray = 500 mcg

  • So here's my routine (some people take more, this dose works well for me)
  • 1 mg daily
  • 2 sprays daily
 
frankpeptid said:

Jfrick11 said:

During January, I took Epitalon, DSIP, and Selank as nasal sprays. My sleep scores jumped to 💯, most nights I was logging 2–3 hours of deep sleep, and I hadn't felt that rested in decades.

Once the cycles wrapped up, I skipped repeating Selank and DSIP past 4 weeks — clearly I believed I was fixed. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Roughly six months later: I'm waking mid-night, slogging through the day, clueless about why... and I somehow burned weeks chasing this giant puzzle. 🙄

Then the ahh-ha landed.... So 3 nights back, I began them again.

Night 1: 💯 sleep score

Night 2: 💯 sleep score

Night 3: 💯 sleep score 2 hours 53 minutes of deep sleep. (My sleep scores tend to land between 45-70/night).

Everyone's mileage may vary, but in my case, the shift has been absurd. I hadn't clocked how exhausted I'd gotten until I recalled the sensation of waking up rested.

Fingers crossed that overlooking what works spectacularly well turns out to be a one off event,
Click to expand...

Is there a guide or a how-to for preparing those as intranasal sprays? I want to make sure the spray delivers the right dose. Thanks
Click to expand...
I already shared my method in the post right above this one
 
Jfrick11 said:

phoenixthepomsky said:

It’s wild that your sleep improved so fast from these. I’ve got all 3 on hand but haven’t begun any yet. Any assistance with getting proper sleep would be welcome. 30m of deep sleep would be a good result for me. Could you share how you dosed each one? Was there any sleep upside from only 1 of them, or did it take all 3 together to really work?
Click to expand...
Glad to share.

DSIP/Selank

To start, the DSIP and Selank go into a single bottle together.

For DSIP, my cycle runs 8 weeks; Selank runs 4.

Because of that, I adjusted the concentration so that bottle #1 would cover the entire 4 weeks when both are combined. When the next month comes, that bottle will hold only DSIP for the remaining 4 weeks. The spray bottles I use are from Snoot.

  • One thing to keep in mind.....with the DSIP, I mixed a double batch, so it comes out to 10mg/6ml rather than the 5mg/3ml shown in the protocol below. That leaves me with a final concentration of:
    • 10 mg DSIP
    • 10 mg Selank
    • Combined in 6 mL total sterile saline
    • 1 spray = 167 mcg DSIP + 167 mcg Selank
    • 2 sprays = 334 mcg DSIP + 334 mcg Selank (✔️I use 2 sprays)
Epitalon:

  • For this one, I mix it in its own bottle.
  • 20 mg Epitalon
  • Add 4 mL sterile water

  • Concentration
  • 20 mg = 20,000 mcg
  • 20,000 mcg ÷ 4 mL = 5,000 mcg/mL
  • Standard nasal spray = 0.1 mL
  • 1 spray = 500 mcg

  • So here's my routine (some people take more, this dose works well for me)
  • 1 mg daily
  • 2 sprays daily
Click to expand...
Solid write-up, appreciate it!! Lately I've been dealing with pin fatigue, so this comes at a great time.
 
Might have to give a few of these a shot. For me, the trouble mostly stems from pain or numbness in my arm/shoulder after staying in 1 position for too long. On most nights I'm flipping over like a rotisserie chicken.
 
My phone's Health app and the Muse app give me different deep sleep numbers. According to Health (through the Apple Watch), I get somewhere between 25 and 45 minutes of deep sleep, but Muse typically says 0. Since Muse tracks brain wave activity directly, it's likely the more reliable one.

At different points I've used Epithalon, DSIP, and Selank intranasally, and none of it worked well for me. After reading JFrick's report, I'm tempted to give them another shot.
 
I'm in the middle of this right now. After 10 days on epithalon, I felt like I'd been fixed. These days I can hardly drag myself out of bed.

Also worth noting: DSIP won't do much to put you to sleep. In this stack, epithalon is carrying the whole load. Selank I can't comment on.
 
Jfrick11 said:

phoenixthepomsky said:

It’s wild that your sleep improved so fast from these. I’ve got all 3 on hand but haven’t begun any yet. Any assistance with getting proper sleep would be welcome. 30m of deep sleep would be a good result for me. Could you share how you dosed each one? Was there any sleep upside from only 1 of them, or did it take all 3 together to really work?
Click to expand...
Glad to share.

DSIP/Selank

To start, the DSIP and Selank go into a single bottle together.

For DSIP, my cycle runs 8 weeks; Selank runs 4.

Because of that, I adjusted the concentration so that bottle #1 would cover the entire 4 weeks when both are combined. When the next month comes, that bottle will hold only DSIP for the remaining 4 weeks. The spray bottles I use are from Snoot.

  • One thing to keep in mind.....with the DSIP, I mixed a double batch, so it comes out to 10mg/6ml rather than the 5mg/3ml shown in the protocol below. That leaves me with a final concentration of:
    • 10 mg DSIP
    • 10 mg Selank
    • Combined in 6 mL total sterile saline
    • 1 spray = 167 mcg DSIP + 167 mcg Selank
    • 2 sprays = 334 mcg DSIP + 334 mcg Selank (✔️I use 2 sprays)
Epitalon:

  • For this one, I mix it in its own bottle.
  • 20 mg Epitalon
  • Add 4 mL sterile water

  • Concentration
  • 20 mg = 20,000 mcg
  • 20,000 mcg ÷ 4 mL = 5,000 mcg/mL
  • Standard nasal spray = 0.1 mL
  • 1 spray = 500 mcg

  • So here's my routine (some people take more, this dose works well for me)
  • 1 mg daily
  • 2 sprays daily
Click to expand...
I really appreciate you posting this! Definitely going to test it out. The nasal route is a big plus for me, since locating injection sites has become a struggle lately. I'll need to grab some sterile saline water.
 
phoenixthepomsky said:

Jfrick11 said:

phoenixthepomsky said:

It’s wild that your sleep improved so fast from these. I’ve got all 3 on hand but haven’t begun any yet. Any assistance with getting proper sleep would be welcome. 30m of deep sleep would be a good result for me. Could you share how you dosed each one? Was there any sleep upside from only 1 of them, or did it take all 3 together to really work?
Click to expand...
Glad to share.

DSIP/Selank

To start, the DSIP and Selank go into a single bottle together.

For DSIP, my cycle runs 8 weeks; Selank runs 4.

Because of that, I adjusted the concentration so that bottle #1 would cover the entire 4 weeks when both are combined. When the next month comes, that bottle will hold only DSIP for the remaining 4 weeks. The spray bottles I use are from Snoot.

  • One thing to keep in mind.....with the DSIP, I mixed a double batch, so it comes out to 10mg/6ml rather than the 5mg/3ml shown in the protocol below. That leaves me with a final concentration of:
    • 10 mg DSIP
    • 10 mg Selank
    • Combined in 6 mL total sterile saline
    • 1 spray = 167 mcg DSIP + 167 mcg Selank
    • 2 sprays = 334 mcg DSIP + 334 mcg Selank (✔️I use 2 sprays)
Epitalon:

  • For this one, I mix it in its own bottle.
  • 20 mg Epitalon
  • Add 4 mL sterile water

  • Concentration
  • 20 mg = 20,000 mcg
  • 20,000 mcg ÷ 4 mL = 5,000 mcg/mL
  • Standard nasal spray = 0.1 mL
  • 1 spray = 500 mcg

  • So here's my routine (some people take more, this dose works well for me)
  • 1 mg daily
  • 2 sprays daily
Click to expand...
I really appreciate you posting this! Definitely going to test it out. The nasal route is a big plus for me, since locating injection sites has become a struggle lately. I'll need to grab some sterile saline water.
Click to expand...
I get this 100% . Knowing what is doing what is part of running cycles...but if I am honest, the pin cushion effect is another huge driver. Adding these 3 without a stick is a nice change.
 
B

birdwhacker said:

I'm in the middle of this right now. After 10 days on epithalon, I felt like I'd been fixed. These days I can hardly drag myself out of bed.

Also worth noting: DSIP won't do much to put you to sleep. In this stack, epithalon is carrying the whole load. Selank I can't comment on.
Click to expand...
My deep sleep is, I believe, being substantially boosted by the DSIP.
 
About a month back, I finished a round of Epithalon too. Throughout that whole period, my sleep was fantastic. Can't wait to start it up again.
 
Jfrick11 said:

B

birdwhacker said:

I'm in the middle of this right now. After 10 days on epithalon, I felt like I'd been fixed. These days I can hardly drag myself out of bed.

Also worth noting: DSIP won't do much to put you to sleep. In this stack, epithalon is carrying the whole load. Selank I can't comment on.
Click to expand...
My deep sleep is, I believe, being substantially boosted by the DSIP.
Click to expand...
Of course it is—my point is only that it won't make you sleepy or make falling asleep any easier.

What I'm warning against is spending money on DSIP, unless epitalon is already part of your routine and you're okay paying a lot for modest returns.

Within this stack, epitalon is what's really carrying the load. I can't wait to pair epithalon with pinealon in the near future!
 
Back
Top