Running MOTS-c and SLU-PP-322 together

Nipponpeptide

Nipponpeptide

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After going through many threads about whether MOTS-c or SLU-PP-322 should come first, my takeaway is that much of the split comes down to practical and financial concerns rather than biology.

Here’s how I’ve come to see it (feel free to correct me):

MOTS-c leans toward boosting mitochondrial efficiency — the metabolic “engine”

SLU-PP-322 leans toward raising substrate utilization — energy throughput

A bit like repairing the engine versus stepping on the gas — each has its place, and each comes with its own trade-offs.

Still, my main question isn’t about order — it’s about overlap:

Are there any known problems — whether mechanistic or practical — with using MOTS-c and SLU-PP-322 concurrently?

I’m not coming at this from a vendor or price perspective; I just want to know if there’s any downside around redundancy, interference, excess fatigue, appetite problems, and so on.

Any insight from people who have run both or know the pathways well would be welcome.
 
Nipponpeptide said:

After going through many threads about whether MOTS-c or SLU-PP-322 should come first, my takeaway is that much of the split comes down to practical and financial concerns rather than biology.

Here’s how I’ve come to see it (feel free to correct me):

MOTS-c leans toward boosting mitochondrial efficiency — the metabolic “engine”

SLU-PP-322 leans toward raising substrate utilization — energy throughput

A bit like repairing the engine versus stepping on the gas — each has its place, and each comes with its own trade-offs.

Still, my main question isn’t about order — it’s about overlap:

Are there any known problems — whether mechanistic or practical — with using MOTS-c and SLU-PP-322 concurrently?

I’m not coming at this from a vendor or price perspective; I just want to know if there’s any downside around redundancy, interference, excess fatigue, appetite problems, and so on.

Any insight from people who have run both or know the pathways well would be welcome.
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When it comes to SLUPP, my preference is the oral route only. DMSO is the sole solvent that works for it, at a ratio of 1mg to every 0.1mL of DMSO, and keeping DMSO at or below 5% is advised. For the rest of the carrier oil, you can use PEG400, PG, or similar. If you try to mix it without starting with DMSO, you end up with cloudy suspensions rather than a clear solution. On top of that, filtration through oil-compatible .22 micron PTFE syringe filters is necessary. Since some people dislike DMSO and it can trigger negative reactions, I recommend looking into it yourself before making a decision.
 
A Chinese supplier also offers an oral SLU product as a "Bam15 30mg/Slu 250mcg blend."
 
A common debate centers on whether SS-31 or MOTS-c should come first, often framed with the idea of repairing the engine before adding a supercharger. If your goal is to address the engine before pressing the accelerator, SS-31 appears to carry a better-established safety record compared to MOTS-c. (For anyone thinking about MOTS-c, checking out the “Epi Pen Resources” thread would be useful.)

As for what you originally asked: when I look at how MOTS-c and SLU work, there doesn’t appear to be much mechanistic overlap. Neemio has more detailed information if you want to explore further.
 
From what I can tell, the consensus is to start with SS-31 and then move on to MOTS-c. Whether you take oral SLU-PP-322 before, after, or in the middle of a MOTS-c run isn't really a big deal—you could even stack all 3 at once. Check out Vigorous Steve's deep dives on mitochondria over on YT.

If you get the dosing right, both SLU and MOTS-c deliver a huge amount of energy, but in my experience MOTS-c is the one you really feel, whereas SLU is more subtle. I haven't stacked them yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to.

The only precautions I'd flag: MOTS-c gave me hypo symptoms when I was also taking berberine, so I had to stop either the berberine or the MOTS-c, otherwise my blood glucose would tank. Also, anaphylactic reactions to MOTS-c do happen for some people, typically at higher doses. My dose is 1mg per day, though most people appear to use 5mg 2x or 3x per week.
 
Benny Adam said:

From what I can tell, the consensus is to start with SS-31 and then move on to MOTS-c. Whether you take oral SLU-PP-322 before, after, or in the middle of a MOTS-c run isn't really a big deal—you could even stack all 3 at once. Check out Vigorous Steve's deep dives on mitochondria over on YT.

If you get the dosing right, both SLU and MOTS-c deliver a huge amount of energy, but in my experience MOTS-c is the one you really feel, whereas SLU is more subtle. I haven't stacked them yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to.

The only precautions I'd flag: MOTS-c gave me hypo symptoms when I was also taking berberine, so I had to stop either the berberine or the MOTS-c, otherwise my blood glucose would tank. Also, anaphylactic reactions to MOTS-c do happen for some people, typically at higher doses. My dose is 1mg per day, though most people appear to use 5mg 2x or 3x per week.
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That's my thinking too. Plus the injection site reactions. I'll pass.

That said, when it comes to immune reactions, SS-31 ranks pretty low.
 
Calm Logic said:

Benny Adam said:

From what I can tell, the consensus is to start with SS-31 and then move on to MOTS-c. Whether you take oral SLU-PP-322 before, after, or in the middle of a MOTS-c run isn't really a big deal—you could even stack all 3 at once. Check out Vigorous Steve's deep dives on mitochondria over on YT.

If you get the dosing right, both SLU and MOTS-c deliver a huge amount of energy, but in my experience MOTS-c is the one you really feel, whereas SLU is more subtle. I haven't stacked them yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to.

The only precautions I'd flag: MOTS-c gave me hypo symptoms when I was also taking berberine, so I had to stop either the berberine or the MOTS-c, otherwise my blood glucose would tank. Also, anaphylactic reactions to MOTS-c do happen for some people, typically at higher doses. My dose is 1mg per day, though most people appear to use 5mg 2x or 3x per week.
Click to expand...

That's my thinking too. Plus the injection site reactions. I'll pass.

That said, when it comes to immune reactions, SS-31 ranks pretty low.
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Right. Luckily, any ISRs I experienced were minor and only showed up near the end of the vial/cycle. Whether that came from the peptide breaking down or from antibodies accumulating, I can't say—my bet is antibodies.

That said, the cardio endurance boost was incredible, and for me it surpassed what SLU provided.
 
Ugh, I picked up a whole kit of SLU-PP-322 without knowing DMSO was required — something I'd never consider putting in my body. Take it from me: test with 1 vial first, not a full kit.
 
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