Oxytocin and Me. Not a love story.

Aukwerd

Aukwerd

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I've been doing some reading and a plan has been forming in my head. Of course my doctor will hear about it before I do anything, but if anyone here has hands-on experience, I'd like to hear it.

Blood pressure is an issue for me. My job is stressful, my commute is long and full of infuriating drivers, and there are stressors waiting at home. A lot of visceral fat has accumulated, which I suspect comes from elevated cortisol, and that in turn has made the blood pressure situation worse. I'm on medication for the blood pressure; the problem isn't that I'm unmedicated. Research I've read suggests an evening oxytocin dose might suppress cortisol, which would reduce stress and dial down the signal my body sends to hold onto visceral fat. Lower cortisol means less stress and less fat being stored or produced. Weigh-in happens weekly, following the protocol I listed before.

So here's the experiment:

-Week one: stop the BP meds. It's the lowest dose that exists, so I doubt a week will kill me. BP gets checked continuously. The medication ought to be out of my system by 40 hours; begin low dose subq oxytocin at 100mcg. BP is measured before the injection and 30 minutes afterward.

-Week two: move up to 150mcg, with the same BP checks; before the dose and 30 minutes after. If nothing has changed by the end of week two, I go back on the BP medication the doctor gave me. If changes are showing up, I keep going and titrate upward week by week, as far as 500mcg.

For context, what I currently take: Reta for weight loss, KLOW for skin and joints, MOTS-c for mitochondrial synergy with Reta, and NAD+ for mitochondrial synergy with MOTS and Reta. I know Reta can raise resting heart rate. I'm low dosing Reta twice a week and haven't seen any rise in heart rate or BP.

My doctor is familiar with all of this and with me. She can't prescribe these things, but so far she's supported my thinking and my actions, and she's seen the results. Two months in: down 25 pounds, 30lbs of fat including 3lbs visceral fat, and 5lbs of muscle gained. Before this next step begins, I'll talk it over with her.

Updates will follow. Once more, any practical experience anyone can share would be a big help. Thank you.
 
I'm interested in hearing what your experience has been. I've been researching oxytocin as a way to bring down my cortisol and stress levels. The emotional perks don't matter to me.
 
Aukwerd said:

I've been doing some reading and a plan has been forming in my head. Of course my doctor will hear about it before I do anything, but if anyone here has hands-on experience, I'd like to hear it.

Blood pressure is an issue for me. My job is stressful, my commute is long and full of infuriating drivers, and there are stressors waiting at home. A lot of visceral fat has accumulated, which I suspect comes from elevated cortisol, and that in turn has made the blood pressure situation worse. I'm on medication for the blood pressure; the problem isn't that I'm unmedicated. Research I've read suggests an evening oxytocin dose might suppress cortisol, which would reduce stress and dial down the signal my body sends to hold onto visceral fat. Lower cortisol means less stress and less fat being stored or produced. Weigh-in happens weekly, following the protocol I listed before.

So here's the experiment:

-Week one: stop the BP meds. It's the lowest dose that exists, so I doubt a week will kill me. BP gets checked continuously. The medication ought to be out of my system by 40 hours; begin low dose subq oxytocin at 100mcg. BP is measured before the injection and 30 minutes afterward.

-Week two: move up to 150mcg, with the same BP checks; before the dose and 30 minutes after. If nothing has changed by the end of week two, I go back on the BP medication the doctor gave me. If changes are showing up, I keep going and titrate upward week by week, as far as 500mcg.

For context, what I currently take: Reta for weight loss, KLOW for skin and joints, MOTS-c for mitochondrial synergy with Reta, and NAD+ for mitochondrial synergy with MOTS and Reta. I know Reta can raise resting heart rate. I'm low dosing Reta twice a week and haven't seen any rise in heart rate or BP.

My doctor is familiar with all of this and with me. She can't prescribe these things, but so far she's supported my thinking and my actions, and she's seen the results. Two months in: down 25 pounds, 30lbs of fat including 3lbs visceral fat, and 5lbs of muscle gained. Before this next step begins, I'll talk it over with her.

Updates will follow. Once more, any practical experience anyone can share would be a big help. Thank you.
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This is a fascinating experiment. I'd really like to know what results came out of it and which data points you recorded. From what I've read about oxytocin, isn't it mostly meant for women?
 
Rickcaps said:

This is a fascinating experiment. I'd really like to know what results came out of it and which data points you recorded. From what I've read about oxytocin, isn't it mostly meant for women?
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In men, oxytocin is one of the hormones that make up the normal picture. Medically, it shows up as pitocin, a drug that brings on uterine contractions and forces labor in women. Beyond that, the only solid studies I could locate involved giving it intranasally to psychiatric patients in an attempt to relieve schizophrenia. The doses that worked there were extremely small. When it comes to labor, the doses are exponential.
 
My BP is moderately elevated (grade 1 Hypertension), so I'd like to know how things turn out for you.

Ramapril doesn't appear to be helping much at all, and so far the one change that has clearly moved the needle is a bigger dose of Taurine powder (6g a day) mixed into my protein shake, though it still has a few points to go before it comes down enough.
 
Aukwerd said:


I have been looking around and having a thought. Obviously I will talk to my doctor about what I’m thinking, but I would like to hear some personal experience if it exists.

I have some blood pressure issues. I have a stressful job, long commute with frustrating drivers, stressors at home; I have gained a lot of visceral fat, I believe, from high cortisol levels which exacerbated the high blood pressure issue. I take medication to help with blood pressure; my blood pressure problem isn’t from lack of medication. From reading research, an evening dose of oxytocin could blunt cortisol, lowering stress, and lowering my body’s signal to store visceral fat. Less cortisol, less stress, less fat retention/production. Weekly weigh-in as per previous protocol listed below.

So here’s the experiment:

-First week, come off BP meds, it’s literally the lowest dose medication, I don’t think I’ll die in a week. Continuously monitor BP. After 40 hours the medication should have left my body; Start low dose subq oxytocin 100mcg. Monitor BP before and 30 minutes after injection.

-Second week: titrate to 150mcg same monitor to of BP; before dose 30 minutes after injection. At the end of week two, if there’s no change, take BP medication given to me by the doctor. If changes are occurring continue protocol and titration week after week up to 500mcg.

For reference, I am currently taking Reta for weight loss, KLOW for skin and joints, MOTS-c for mitochondrial synergy for Reta, NAD+ for mitochondrial synergy for MOTS and Reta. I’m aware of the resting heart rate increase from Reta. I’m low dosing Reta twice a week and haven’t noticed any increase in heart rate or BP.

Again, my doctor knows this stuff and knows me, although she cannot prescribe these things to me, she has been on board with my thoughts and actions so far, and sees the results. Two months down 25 pounds. 30lbs of fat, including 3lbs visceral fat and gained 5lbs of muscle. I’m going to consult with her before this move takes effect.

Updates to come, and again any practical experience would be helpful. Thank you.

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I spent 18 years on blood pressure medication, and I managed to taper off it myself using aged garlic gel tablets. If you search online, you'll find a fair amount written about this.
 
RockyRoo said:

I spent 18 years on blood pressure medication, and I managed to taper off it myself using aged garlic gel tablets. If you search online, you'll find a fair amount written about this.
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Interesting — is there a specific brand or type you use? I'd like to know which one.
 
Short update: had an appointment with my doctor today. I laid out the experiment I'm hoping to run, and while a flat "Yes" wasn't something she could give me, she did acknowledge that my proposal might be a workable path.

Endocrinology isn't her specialty, but based on what she does know, she's on board with the idea that oxytocin blunts cortisol; when cortisol gets blunted, visceral fat production gets slowed down or halted, and that v. fat is probably the largest contributor to my problem. I requested a few weeks off my medication, and her response was, "Ok, I understand your reasoning, I'm curious to see what you find out."

We talked through the other peptides and how they react, along with the fact that effective dosing doesn't overlap between them.

Friday is when I begin dosing, so my system can clear out the BP meds. I'll be checking in with her every week, and once I've gone over things with my doc, I'll post what I find here. Thanks to everyone for your input!!
 
First dose report:

Weight in the morning: 327lbs

Morning blood pressure: 168/102

Before EOD dose: 179/109

Dose taken: 40mg/IN plus 80mcg subq

30 minutes post-dose: 166/100

On day one, this is anecdotal at most.

I'm logging every day. Going forward I'll update less often — I was just eager about the first day.

About 15 minutes after the nasal spray, I noticed a mild feeling of satisfaction. I held off 30 minutes before the subq. Roughly 2 minutes after the injection, my cheeks felt flushed. Right now I'm lying in bed, calm, and ready to fall asleep.

What I'm keeping track of: water retention, visceral fat score, mood/feelings/stress level, and hunger, since this is a hormonal switch.

As I've said, my doctor is helping me watch my BP. We're aware it's high — stage 2 hypertension. I have three weeks to show a significant drop with repeated treatment. If I reach the same level as with lisinopril, I get to continue. If it stays the same, I go back on meds to control it. I'm eating a sensible, non-restricted diet and keeping steps at or above goal to help drop weight.

Thanks everyone!!
 
After a few days of thinking it over and talking it through with my doctor, I've concluded that stage 2 hypertension is somewhere I don't want to stay. I'm not abandoning oxytocin — I still want to reduce cortisol production. The doses are coming down a lot. My routine had been 40mcg IN in the mornings to get going, plus 40mcg IN and 80mcg subq. The subq gave me roughly a 10 point drop, but overnight my BP climbed back to risky numbers. I'll keep the IN application and stop the subq.

Thanks for reading! Thanks for the encouragement!
 
Aukwerd said:

After a few days of thinking it over and talking it through with my doctor, I've concluded that stage 2 hypertension is somewhere I don't want to stay. I'm not abandoning oxytocin — I still want to reduce cortisol production. The doses are coming down a lot. My routine had been 40mcg IN in the mornings to get going, plus 40mcg IN and 80mcg subq. The subq gave me roughly a 10 point drop, but overnight my BP climbed back to risky numbers. I'll keep the IN application and stop the subq.

Thanks for reading! Thanks for the encouragement!
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What's the reason for staying with IN rather than subq?

Following this has been interesting!
 
You mention losing 25 lbs, but you don't say what your total goal is. If the amount you still need to lose is substantially larger and you keep dropping weight on GLP drugs, the likelihood is very high that your blood pressure will come down along with the weight — and reta also lowers blood pressure directly, separate from any weight effect. This all unfolds over time, but unless your BP is extremely high, the real point is lowering long-term cardiovascular risk. Several human studies of intranasal oxytocin for various purposes exist, and there is reasonable evidence it can produce weight loss. Whether those studies showed blood pressure effects I can't recall, but they ought to be easy to locate and read, and if a proper study did show an effect, at least your experiment would rest on some solid science.

One suggestion: you probably don't need to discontinue your current blood pressure medication for the experiment. If anything, stopping it complicates reading the results, and should your blood pressure fall to a measurably low level or you develop postural hypotension, you could discontinue the medication at that point.

Blood pressure fluctuates a great deal for a whole pile of reasons — exercise, mood, time of day, and plain random variation included — so be careful about overinterpreting short-term changes.

If you are overweight or especially obese with high blood pressure, checking urinary protein/albumin is a good idea and is often overlooked. It changes decisions about when to use statins and aspirin for cardiovascular prevention, and presumably you have had lipids and sugars checked.

I have experimented with oxytocin too, but subcutaneously rather than intranasally, and more for its effects on weight and appetite, since I am trying and largely succeeding at maintaining a 56% weight loss. It's very hard to say how much effect it had while I was also on tirz15mg /reta7mg/cagri0.5mg/w plus mots-c hgh0.75iu/d. I don't recall noticing any obvious blood pressure effect, but despite having high BP that required treatment before I lost weight — around 140/100 — I now have problems with it being low, 105/65, especially on standing, when my vision often greys out. At least it is no longer high and causing damage, and the effect is very consistent, so I can work around it with no real risk of falling over or fainting.
 
lessthanhalf said:

You mention losing 25 lbs, but you don't say what your total goal is. If the amount you still need to lose is substantially larger and you keep dropping weight on GLP drugs, the likelihood is very high that your blood pressure will come down along with the weight — and reta also lowers blood pressure directly, separate from any weight effect. This all unfolds over time, but unless your BP is extremely high, the real point is lowering long-term cardiovascular risk. Several human studies of intranasal oxytocin for various purposes exist, and there is reasonable evidence it can produce weight loss. Whether those studies showed blood pressure effects I can't recall, but they ought to be easy to locate and read, and if a proper study did show an effect, at least your experiment would rest on some solid science.

One suggestion: you probably don't need to discontinue your current blood pressure medication for the experiment. If anything, stopping it complicates reading the results, and should your blood pressure fall to a measurably low level or you develop postural hypotension, you could discontinue the medication at that point.

Blood pressure fluctuates a great deal for a whole pile of reasons — exercise, mood, time of day, and plain random variation included — so be careful about overinterpreting short-term changes.

If you are overweight or especially obese with high blood pressure, checking urinary protein/albumin is a good idea and is often overlooked. It changes decisions about when to use statins and aspirin for cardiovascular prevention, and presumably you have had lipids and sugars checked.

I have experimented with oxytocin too, but subcutaneously rather than intranasally, and more for its effects on weight and appetite, since I am trying and largely succeeding at maintaining a 56% weight loss. It's very hard to say how much effect it had while I was also on tirz15mg /reta7mg/cagri0.5mg/w plus mots-c hgh0.75iu/d. I don't recall noticing any obvious blood pressure effect, but despite having high BP that required treatment before I lost weight — around 140/100 — I now have problems with it being low, 105/65, especially on standing, when my vision often greys out. At least it is no longer high and causing damage, and the effect is very consistent, so I can work around it with no real risk of falling over or fainting.
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That's really useful info. I'm still taking the IN oxytocin each morning. To keep cortisol in check, I might cut my subq dose in half. Fat loss without muscle wasting is still going well for me on Reta. My doctor agrees my visceral fat is far too high, so she doesn't push back on the protocol I presented to her regarding GLPs and other peptides. She can't prescribe anything that isn't FDA approved, but if something might help, she won't say "no" to me.

Thanks again for sharing. Later in this journey I may have questions about HGH or secretagogues for losing fat and building muscle. Take care!
 
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