oh boyyy. This is a doozy.

FartfulCodger said:

Take a potent toxin like botulinum toxin. Inject it at a dose above what Botox contains, and an ISR could result. That ISR, though, might be the final thing you experience before the injection kills you. Swallowing it is toxic too, but your stomach is better at neutralizing poisons, so eating it would in effect deliver a smaller dose.
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But Botox isn't what we're discussing here.
 
desinr-gal said:

But Botox isn't what we're discussing here.
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We're discussing toxins broadly. Botulinum toxin counts as a toxin. It shows up often in food, particularly when canning is done improperly. It has also turned up in off-brand BAC water. Other toxins exist too, but botulinum ranks among the most common and the most dangerous.

My point is this: a toxin injected is much worse than one swallowed. Fatality is far more likely with injection. I assumed everyone knew that. Why it sparked an argument and a wave of heated replies is beyond me.
 
ladyj779 said:

Some folks in this community are trying to rank risks from low to high. That goal is 💯 worthy of respect and easy to sympathize with.

Their method, though, is simply to declare that x carries more danger than y.

(Why this ranking has to be pushed onto anyone besides the person making it is unclear. The majority of people here already know about risks in general and in specific cases, and they weigh those against measurable benefits that go with them, whether health-related or financial.)

If you ask them for evidence backing up their claims, they won't give any. Instead they repeat the same assertions as though they were established facts.
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Truth....if being near the edge bothers you, you won't last long on this board — sticking around means you're fine making calls on things like gray, vendors, crypto......plenty of people bail once it gets too heavy....it's definitely not every bodies cup of tea.......Still, for the ones who do stay, it makes for an interesting crowd.... 👍 😎
 
GLiPtest said:


Since around 5% of lyophilized peptides checked for sterility by Jano test positive for active, live bacteria, a result so serious that would trigger a complete shutdown of a licensed pharma factory, nationwide recall of all products produced there, and after happening on multiple occasions a certain revocation of their license to produce any medication at all, either they are being made by the worst pharma manufacturers in the world, or the “made in the same factories as the stuff on pharmacy shelves” is a myth consumers of black (not “grey”) market peptides comfort themselves with.

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Yeah... I can't speak from direct experience about how those chains get made in China, but it stands to reason that a handful or even several big labs are the ones linking most of these together. After that, the full API probably goes out to smaller distributors, who do the filling and packaging of the finished product. The brokers come next — those are the folks I deal with. That's a lot of hands, a lot of time and a lot of distance for contaminants to creep in.

On the other hand, I do know something about FDA-validated sites in the US that manufacture peptide chains, with the same company handling filling and packaging of the compounds. FDA validation — the process that lets pharma companies make these drugs — is so strict that a 10% misfill could mean millions of dollars of product getting destroyed. The constraints at these labs are so tight that if the temperature is off by x degrees, the batch is gone. In essence, once validation happens, every future batch has to be produced under exactly the same conditions so that all of it comes out identical. Even small shifts in humidity or temperature can affect the end product. And that's not all — validation reaches all the way back to the source materials. Any aminos, building blocks, etc. have to come from validated sites too. Those can be overseas, and it sounds wild, but the FDA actually has jurisdiction in foreign countries to confirm that validation. GMP/GxP is controlled to a crazy degree. Having been part of that process, the high cost of US medication at least starts to make a little sense. Don't get me wrong, they're still raking it in, but that $1 medication may genuinely carry hundreds in overhead from the process alone.
 
sickopsycho said:

Yeah... I can't speak from direct experience about how those chains get made in China, but it stands to reason that a handful or even several big labs are the ones linking most of these together. After that, the full API probably goes out to smaller distributors, who do the filling and packaging of the finished product. The brokers come next — those are the folks I deal with. That's a lot of hands, a lot of time and a lot of distance for contaminants to creep in.

On the other hand, I do know something about FDA-validated sites in the US that manufacture peptide chains, with the same company handling filling and packaging of the compounds. FDA validation — the process that lets pharma companies make these drugs — is so strict that a 10% misfill could mean millions of dollars of product getting destroyed. The constraints at these labs are so tight that if the temperature is off by x degrees, the batch is gone. In essence, once validation happens, every future batch has to be produced under exactly the same conditions so that all of it comes out identical. Even small shifts in humidity or temperature can affect the end product. And that's not all — validation reaches all the way back to the source materials. Any aminos, building blocks, etc. have to come from validated sites too. Those can be overseas, and it sounds wild, but the FDA actually has jurisdiction in foreign countries to confirm that validation. GMP/GxP is controlled to a crazy degree. Having been part of that process, the high cost of US medication at least starts to make a little sense. Don't get me wrong, they're still raking it in, but that $1 medication may genuinely carry hundreds in overhead from the process alone.
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Nearly every one of these standards rests on companies testing and reporting on themselves. Big manufacturers have a strong financial incentive to stay compliant. Still, greed should never be underestimated — the Sackler family is proof of that.

That said, telehealth GLP producers are the ones I trust least. Of all the manufacturers, they have the greatest profit motive to cook their own self reports. They're aware that inspections may not come for years, and they're aware that their customers don't test what they receive. Meanwhile, the money at stake runs into the millions upon millions.

In the gray market, at least, people communicate with one another, run tests, and share when results come back bad — and they also handle filtering and keep things sterile.
 
Goonwise said:

At least SNL sketches have humor in them. Your situation comes across more as a dark comedy.
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SNL hasn't been funny for the past 20-30 years. AT. ALL. The writing is lame, and every one of the realllly talented people is gone. Or dead. SNL SAD Night Live. 😢

Anyhooo...

ladyj779 said:

Also, kindly avoid introducing e coli.
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Is injecting the E. coli faster than ingesting it? 🤣 Asking for a friend.
 
SoCalGirl said:

SNL hasn't been funny for the past 20-30 years. AT. ALL. The writing is lame, and every one of the realllly talented people is gone. Or dead. SNL SAD Night Live. 😢

Anyhooo...



Is injecting the E. coli faster than ingesting it? 🤣 Asking for a friend.
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I enjoyed plenty of sketches, including the one where Pedro Pascal played Mario in The Last of Us. Since comedy depends on the viewer, seeing a sweeping claim capped off with
Code: 
AT. ALL
does make my eyebrows frown a little.
 
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