oh boyyy. This is a doozy.

ladyj779 said:

Someone must have looked into how many severe infections and/or deaths result from subcutaneous infections. Given how worried people are about this, my assumption is that they've researched the fatalities or serious illnesses tied to sub q injections.
My view is that caution should win out, which means the burden of demonstrating safety ought to fall on anyone asserting that injecting mail-order chemicals carries little risk.

What this whole thread makes clear is the single best piece of advice I've given on here: with the kit that just showed up in your mailbox, the day before beginning your official 20 units daily regimen, do a single 1 unit injection. Then watch how you feel across the following 24 hours.
 
FartfulCodger said:

My view is that caution should win out, which means the burden of demonstrating safety ought to fall on anyone asserting that injecting mail-order chemicals carries little risk.

What this whole thread makes clear is the single best piece of advice I've given on here: with the kit that just showed up in your mailbox, the day before beginning your official 20 units daily regimen, do a single 1 unit injection. Then watch how you feel across the following 24 hours.

A test dose is something I never skip. Prescription drugs get the same careful treatment from me, and a lot of those are manufactured in China too. My general rule: stay wary of whatever goes into your body, whether swallowed or injected — food included. E coli poisoning kills children right here in the United States of america. Compare the numbers and you'll likely see that foodborne illness cases vastly outnumber problems from subcutaneous injections.

Caution is warranted. Overreaction isn't.
 
ladyj779 said:

A test dose is something I never skip. Prescription drugs get the same careful treatment from me, and a lot of those are manufactured in China too. My general rule: stay wary of whatever goes into your body, whether swallowed or injected — food included. E coli poisoning kills children right here in the United States of america. Compare the numbers and you'll likely see that foodborne illness cases vastly outnumber problems from subcutaneous injections.

Caution is warranted. Overreaction isn't.
The difference is frequency: eating happens much more often than injecting. If E. coli goes in through a needle rather than the mouth, the risk is considerably higher.
 
FartfulCodger said:

The difference is frequency: eating happens much more often than injecting. If E. coli goes in through a needle rather than the mouth, the risk is considerably higher.
Once more I'm asking: please point me to research showing deaths or serious reactions from subcutaneous injections.
 
FartfulCodger said:

And once more, the burden belongs with anyone who chooses not to lean toward caution.
Yet if I follow your logic, nobody ought to be injecting anything subcutaneously unless a medical professional gives it to them. And honestly, the logical endpoint of that argument would be that people shouldn't give themselves subq injections at all, since there's a possible risk — even though no research has been presented showing any substantial risk. Or at least none has been offered here.

Lately I've noticed quite a few folks appearing on the boards who seem to be pushing people away from peptides almost completely. I really have to wonder what brings those people here.

For whatever it's worth, you should be cautious in all areas of your life, weighing risks against benefits. That applies to everything. And you should extend that same freedom to others.
 
ladyj779 said:

Yet if I follow your logic, nobody ought to be injecting anything subcutaneously unless a medical professional gives it to them. And honestly, the logical endpoint of that argument would be that people shouldn't give themselves subq injections at all, since there's a possible risk — even though no research has been presented showing any substantial risk. Or at least none has been offered here.

Lately I've noticed quite a few folks appearing on the boards who seem to be pushing people away from peptides almost completely. I really have to wonder what brings those people here.

For whatever it's worth, you should be cautious in all areas of your life, weighing risks against benefits. That applies to everything. And you should extend that same freedom to others.
I don't believe my reasoning is coming across. At no point did I claim that zero risk should be taken. Even walking across the street to reach the medical professional's office carries risk.

Taking risks is fine and often necessary, but it should stay within sensible bounds. Everyone here is already taking a risk with peptides. What we're discussing is which precautions people ought to take to reduce both risk and cost.

And to be clear, I have no authority to stop you from taking whatever risks you choose, and neither does anyone else who offers advice.
 
FartfulCodger said:

I don't believe my reasoning is coming across. At no point did I claim that zero risk should be taken. Even walking across the street to reach the medical professional's office carries risk.

Taking risks is fine and often necessary, but it should stay within sensible bounds. Everyone here is already taking a risk with peptides. What we're discussing is which precautions people ought to take to reduce both risk and cost.

And to be clear, I have no authority to stop you from taking whatever risks you choose, and neither does anyone else who offers advice.
Bless you, my dude — rest assured, I'm fully aware you have no authority to stop me from taking risks.

That said, let's be realistic about the type of risk involved with sub q injections. That's why I keep asking: please show me the evidence that this carries a greater risk than crossing the street to reach your doctor's office, or than eating produce bought from a very, very nice grocery store. I mean generally — those of you suggesting there's some kind of elevated risk compared to most other things we do in our lives, like walking across the street.
 
ladyj779 said:

Bless you, my dude — rest assured, I'm fully aware you have no authority to stop me from taking risks.

That said, let's be realistic about the type of risk involved with sub q injections. That's why I keep asking: please show me the evidence that this carries a greater risk than crossing the street to reach your doctor's office, or than eating produce bought from a very, very nice grocery store. I mean generally — those of you suggesting there's some kind of elevated risk compared to most other things we do in our lives, like walking across the street.
So what was behind your "And you should let other people do the same."?

Honestly, you and I are basically on the same page, but the endless rambling has worn me out. I'm done here.
 
Flash-BCR said:

Situations like this are exactly why I value the subforums covering CJC, Mots, Tesa and similar peptides — you can gather info on them before giving any a try. Mots isn't my thing (so far)... but CJC w IPA is on its way to me, and I already have Tesa, and before I ever test either one I'll be doing thorough reading here and on other places. On top of that, I plan to order an epi-pen beforehand...
When I try a new peptide, I ramp up gradually as well, watching for any reaction.

Take 1mg Tesamorelin as an example:

Week 1:

100mcg on Monday

200mcg on Wednesday

300mcg on Friday

Week 2:

400mcg on Monday

600mcg on Wednesday

800mcg on Friday

Week 3:

1mg every day until the 16 weeks are complete
 
lalakelly said:

Some molds generate chemicals known as mycotoxins. While the article described mold issues and other production problems, it never stated that the products underwent mycotoxin testing or that contamination was confirmed in any product. Were mycotoxins to have gotten into the product, one could reasonably expect that neither freeze-drying nor filtering would lower or remove such a toxin. Detecting this particular byproduct would require testing specifically designed to find mold-produced mycotoxins; standard microbial testing by itself would not determine whether mycotoxins were there.

I believe your point was that neither filtering nor freeze-drying could remove or even lessen that toxin. Mycotoxins are extremely stable, freeze-drying does nothing to them, and they are far too small to be caught by standard filters.
 
Skidude said:

Honestly, when it comes to supply chain risk, a facility making APIs that FDA inspectors actually visit would rank pretty low on my list of concerns.

And regarding problems, even here in the US, my guess is it resembles PPM.. sometimes ignorance really is bliss..

What Happens When You Ingest Mold

  • Stomach Breakdown: Mold cells and a lot of the compounds tied to them get broken down on their own by the acids and digestive enzymes in your stomach.
  • Mild Reaction: For the majority of healthy individuals, the only thing they notice is a bad taste that's earthy or like dirt.
  • Gastrointestinal Upset: Occasionally, people who are sensitive, or cases where a lot of contaminated food was eaten, can bring on minor stomach trouble, queasiness, or cramping. [1, 2, 3]

When Mold Is Dangerous

  • Mycotoxins: A few types of mold generate poisonous substances known as mycotoxins. When they show up in large quantities on particular grains, nuts, or food that has gone bad, the result can be serious poisoning, sharp stomach pain, or health problems down the road. [1, 2]
  • Food Safety Rule: The USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service says that any food with a lot of moisture (think lunch meats, cooked leftovers, soft cheeses, and baked goods) should be thrown out right away once mold is visible, since mold is able to work its way beneath the surface.
The comparison you're making involves eating a substance, not injecting it. When something goes into your fat layer via injection, it skips all the defenses your digestive system uses to handle contaminated food. That means an injected dose can cause problems at far lower contamination levels than an ingested one would.
 
monkymate said:

The comparison you're making involves eating a substance, not injecting it. When something goes into your fat layer via injection, it skips all the defenses your digestive system uses to handle contaminated food. That means an injected dose can cause problems at far lower contamination levels than an ingested one would.
That's exactly the point I was pointing to.

Just to be clear: hazards surround us everywhere, including in what we eat.
 
Skidude said:

That's exactly the point I was pointing to.

Just to be clear: hazards surround us everywhere, including in what we eat.
Some folks in this community are trying to rank risks from low to high. That goal is 💯 worthy of respect and easy to sympathize with.

Their method, though, is simply to declare that x carries more danger than y.

(Why this ranking has to be pushed onto anyone besides the person making it is unclear. The majority of people here already know about risks in general and in specific cases, and they weigh those against measurable benefits that go with them, whether health-related or financial.)

If you ask them for evidence backing up their claims, they won't give any. Instead they repeat the same assertions as though they were established facts.
 
FartfulCodger said:


But there's a difference in that you're not injecting these things. We eat all kinds of crap but our stomach acid does the heavy lifting of sterilizing them.

Click to expand...
That's fair, but I figure your immune system would pick up on it and trigger a reaction at the injection site. That reaction would serve as a signal that something isn't right.

Which is exactly why I steer clear of anything that produces a noticeable ISR for me.

so long, Mots-C
 
desinr-gal said:

That's fair, but I figure your immune system would pick up on it and trigger a reaction at the injection site. That reaction would serve as a signal that something isn't right.

Which is exactly why I steer clear of anything that produces a noticeable ISR for me.

so long, Mots-C
Take a potent toxin like botulinum toxin. Inject it at a dose above what Botox contains, and an ISR could result. That ISR, though, might be the final thing you experience before the injection kills you. Swallowing it is toxic too, but your stomach is better at neutralizing poisons, so eating it would in effect deliver a smaller dose.
 
bamagirl26 said:

It's everywhere!! But for real though, my point was that the FDA is stopping shipments of ingredients coming out of these manufacturing facilities altogether- and they don't even need to crack open a box to do it. My guess is that this could tie into those gross HYALO Vials people mentioned last week. Sure, there will always be some workaround, but seriously, come on China. Get the factory clean!
Absolutely
 
PAPoots said:


Shoot, I'm a westerner and IDK how the U.S operates. Every day is like a poorly written Saturday Night Live skit.

And when you think things are finally getting better, they cut Guillermo from DWTS.

​

Click to expand...
At least SNL sketches have humor in them. Your situation comes across more as a dark comedy.
 
The only research I managed to locate regarding injection-related infections involved people using street drugs. Those reports show somewhere between 25-30% of users had an infection within the past year. It's fair to say their safety practices rank among the worst imaginable. And I'd assume the people making heroin, meth and similar substances couldn't care less about sterility. Yet even so, most of them don't end up with infections
 
Back
Top