Not Good - Gaining on 15 mg Tirz

[Spork]

woundcarping said:


Don't hate, that's almost assuredly the issue. Some combination of more calories in or less calories out. The fix is to eat less or move more. To eat less, use more medicine, more tracking/conscious effort, or a combination.

That's a 40% increase in effective weekly dose. That's 15mg to 21mg.

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40% isn't a ton

I guess this is to say, given the continuation of higher-dose clinical trials (they haven't ceased due to safety issues) and the approval of 7.2mg doses of semaglutide, this would certainly be a safe enough thing to try and to just see if there's a problem with side effects.

 

[finesse]

You body has adapted and you have a lower metabolic rate I.e., you are eating much much more than you needs to survive.

You need to find out your TDEE and then reduce it to determine what is needed to lose weight.

 

[woundcarping]

Spork said:


40% isn't a ton

I guess this is to say, given the continuation of higher-dose clinical trials (they haven't ceased due to safety issues) and the approval of 7.2mg doses of semaglutide, this would certainly be a safe enough thing to try and to just see if there's a problem with side effects.

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The prior escalation from 12.5mg to 15mg is 20%, going from 7 day pins to 5 day would be double that increase.

I'm not afraid of going beyond trialed dosing, I spent months taking 18-20mg of Reta weekly. I wouldn't take a 40% increase as a cautious, front line experimental fix for gaining 10lb over 180 days.

 

[Laxfinity]

Sema is the only one of all 3 that I am on/have tried that ever stops food noise for me. I would suggest starting with .25 and going from there. I have cagri but never did it because sema took care of it. I started on Ozempic 4 years ago.. so it is the "OG" for me.

 

[Just A Cat]

This is everyone's greatest fear.

It is also, for better or for worst, why I keep getting on the soapbox about using the time that you are actually losing weight to make those new habits, that new lifestyle that will help you in the future. Not only will it help you to lose the weight better, but those changes will help you keep it off better, easier, longer when you go into maintenance.

We are looking at a complicated chaotic system. We have to work with nutrition, biology, the micro-biome, and the normal human tendency to return to old habits.

Complicated... but I will try to sum it up simply as this.

Make some new habits. Otherwise you will return to those old habits, which is what made the old you.

 

[When_Pigs_Fly]

bamagirl26 said:


first of all, I am very sorry you are experiencing this, I know that it is probably causing a lot of anxiety because you dont want to ever go back to where you came from. six months is a pretty long time, but those pounds can creep on slowly. That's how I gained, and didnt really see it happening. So, I think after you lose weight, your body not only has a muscle memory, but also a fat memory and it will quickly betray you if you even slip up slightly! That is cruel, but luckily, we do have some tools to help! I think this could be a perfect case for adding Reta because that raises metabolic rate a bit? Also, have you been stressed? Cortisol changes? Sleeping ok? If I wanted to take action TODAY: I think id commit to a week of very clean eating and see if adding reta would give you a boost in the right direction again. Dont beat yourself up over it tho, sounds like you are already making the commitment to rein it in. Good luck! HYDRATE / TONS ** Edit, reading this back makes me sound so patronizing. trying to be supportive, sorry if it sounds like complete douchebaggery and wishing u the best!

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You

spanky2026 said:


Similar stage and my weight loss has been in dribbles over the last few months. 2 weeks ago I upped to 15mg, hoping for a boost, but nothing noticeable at all. I was jabbing every 6 days.

This past week I decided to mix things up a bit....dropped my dose back to 12.5 but jabbed at day 5, not 6, moving to a 5 day rotation. At 12.5 every 5 days vs 15 every 6 days it should essentially maintain same med level, six of one, etc.

But, to my utter shock, I'm suddenly dropping weight DAILY, 3 pounds in 3 days! I have no explanation for this. I did, at the same time, add an electrolyte to my life, but that's the only other thing that changed.

I can't explain this, just putting it out there for you as a data point.

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thanks. Super helpful

 

[When_Pigs_Fly]

bamagirl26 said:


first of all, I am very sorry you are experiencing this, I know that it is probably causing a lot of anxiety because you dont want to ever go back to where you came from. six months is a pretty long time, but those pounds can creep on slowly. That's how I gained, and didnt really see it happening. So, I think after you lose weight, your body not only has a muscle memory, but also a fat memory and it will quickly betray you if you even slip up slightly! That is cruel, but luckily, we do have some tools to help! I think this could be a perfect case for adding Reta because that raises metabolic rate a bit? Also, have you been stressed? Cortisol changes? Sleeping ok? If I wanted to take action TODAY: I think id commit to a week of very clean eating and see if adding reta would give you a boost in the right direction again. Dont beat yourself up over it tho, sounds like you are already making the commitment to rein it in. Good luck! HYDRATE / TONS ** Edit, reading this back makes me sound so patronizing. trying to be supportive, sorry if it sounds like complete douchebaggery and wishing u the best!

Click to expand...

You

bamagirl26 said:


first of all, I am very sorry you are experiencing this, I know that it is probably causing a lot of anxiety because you dont want to ever go back to where you came from. six months is a pretty long time, but those pounds can creep on slowly. That's how I gained, and didnt really see it happening. So, I think after you lose weight, your body not only has a muscle memory, but also a fat memory and it will quickly betray you if you even slip up slightly! That is cruel, but luckily, we do have some tools to help! I think this could be a perfect case for adding Reta because that raises metabolic rate a bit? Also, have you been stressed? Cortisol changes? Sleeping ok? If I wanted to take action TODAY: I think id commit to a week of very clean eating and see if adding reta would give you a boost in the right direction again. Dont beat yourself up over it tho, sounds like you are already making the commitment to rein it in. Good luck! HYDRATE / TONS ** Edit, reading this back makes me sound so patronizing. trying to be supportive, sorry if it sounds like complete douchebaggery and wishing u the best!

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thanks for the great reply. It really is f’ing w my mind (again - as if food alone isn’t enough to do that!). I hear that you get it. Thanks for the support.

 

[HereKittyKitty]

I stack Tirz with Survo. It's been really good for me and keeps my Tirz runway intact. Every 6 days, 3 day offset.

Tried cagri. Probably coincidental but I got really sick for 24 hours after my first dose. Couldn't bring myself to try it again. It was a harrowing second day of vacation last year.

 

[quicksilver80]

Unless you have a glucagon agonist these drugs dont really help with weightloss. It ultimately boils down to calories in and work output. I was cycling 24 miles a day and that shit didnt matter until i dropped my food intake. Then the weight practically melted off.

 

[woundcarping]

quicksilver80 said:


Unless you have a glucagon agonist these drugs dont really help with weightloss.

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[AngieHolmes]

HereKittyKitty said:


This. This right here.

It is not CICO. The conventional wisdom is incorrect.

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I wonder if this phenomenon is more common among women. Certainly men are loudest (and most certain) when denying it's real. Evidently it's inconceivable that someone would have an experience they're not familiar with.

 

[Skidude]

AngieHolmes said:


I wonder if this phenomenon is more common among women. Certainly men are loudest (and most certain) when denying it's real. Evidently it's inconceivable that someone would have an experience they're not familiar with.

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I, for one, recognize that CICO has it's issues; you should never count calories out when targeting BMR.

Another challenge is accurately measuring calories, as well as adjusting BMR as you lose weight.

I am not sure we need to bring gender into the debate, but I did provide data on how Lilly was targeting less calories in order to lose weight.

Whether you are able to target BMR on individual metabolizing performance, may be a subject of controversy; but there is little controversy in the fact that if you eat too much you will gain weight.

 

[AngieHolmes]

Seasonal1 said:


This is the part no one wants to talk about. These are not magic pills and shots. Plenty of work goes into positive results.

I was reading on another forum today, someone complaining that they had been on Tirz for 8 months and not lost a pound. I don't even know where you start with a comment this goofy. Who stays on a diet for 8 months with absolutely zero results. I review my weight daily and adjust as needed and reflect on the prior day's actions.

When my PCP first prescribed my meds, not one word on diet or exercise was mentioned. I'm not stupid and understand that today we don't have magic fat burning pills.

Congratulations on your success.

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I see comments like this fairly often -- people taking the top dose of their med for months at a time without any loss. It's mystifying. They're wondering if they should stack something else. That usually generates discussion around whether we build a tolerance to the meds ("impossible!"), or whether the person isn't being honest with themselves about how much they're consuming (rude, IMO).

I think the fact is we don't understand everything about these meds. Sometimes the most we can expect from the top dose is maintaining. It feels like the drug is doing nothing, but how much would we have gained without it?

Adjusting my diet/exercise/med regimen on a single day's data has never been useful for me but if it works for you, more power to ya! I need a longer period of time to detect real patterns.

 

[lessthanhalf]

If you are having to count calories and deliberately restrict calorie intake over a long period while taking GLP drugs for them to work, then they are not really working or at best maybe helping a bit. The reason I think it is a problem is that voluntary calorie restriction takes effort , and in general it is not really sustainable, basically turning the process back into a low calorie diet, which might work for a while but generally has poor long term success rates.

Th GLP drugs are meant to reduce appetite so you eat less and create a calorie deficit, without requiring willpower, this is basically why they work long term. And if they do not have that effect at decent doses, and the only way to lose weight is to deliberately restrict calories, then most likely you are one of the unfortunate 5-10% who respond poorly to them.

A lot of people use GLP drugs like a standard diet and exercise program, at low doses with poor hunger control, and deliberate calorie restriction, and set themselves up for a high risk of losing a lot less weight or putting it back on once tolerating the hunger gets too hard in the longer term. So when I see responses to people not losing weight or much weight on them that recommend calorie counting and more exercise as the solution, I tend to disagree, not that they are a bad idea as such, just that they do not really work for long term weight control, especially for those with more severe obesity.

 

[Skidude]

lessthanhalf said:


If you are having to count calories and deliberately restrict calorie intake over a long period while taking GLP drugs for them to work, then they are not really working or at best maybe helping a bit. The reason I think it is a problem is that voluntary calorie restriction takes effort , and in general it is not really sustainable, basically turning the process back into a low calorie diet, which might work for a while but generally has poor long term success rates.

Th GLP drugs are meant to reduce appetite so you eat less and create a calorie deficit, without requiring willpower, this is basically why they work long term. And if they do not have that effect at decent doses, and the only way to lose weight is to deliberately restrict calories, then most likely you are one of the unfortunate 5-10% who respond poorly to them.

A lot of people use GLP drugs like a standard diet and exercise program, at low doses with poor hunger control, and deliberate calorie restriction, and set themselves up for a high risk of losing a lot less weight or putting it back on once tolerating the hunger gets too hard in the longer term. So when I see responses to people not losing weight or much weight on them that recommend calorie counting and more exercise as the solution, I tend to disagree, not that they are a bad idea as such, just that they do not really work for long term weight control, especially for those with more severe obesity.

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I do believe that is the case for me, I eat whatever I want and have not counted calories for over a year. Sometimes Ice cream, often chorizo and eggs with cheese, a nice steak, there is nothing off the menu. I just try to be smart about nutrition, protein, and fiber.

However I am not gaining weight.

If you are gaining weight you might want to check your caloric intake.

 

[Stace_wow]

I must be the anomaly. I have to work my ass off…..the tirz helps the food noise, but my weight loss is slow.

 

[Skidude]

Stace_wow said:


I must be the anomaly. I have to work my ass off…..the tirz helps the food noise, but my weight loss is slow.

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Please do not misunderstand, when I wanted to lose weight, I counted and I walked.

Once I hit my goal, I did not want to lose, so I take my 15mg a week and it is enough to keep me from gaining. I get full easier and don't overdo it, because I know it will upset my stomach if I go overboard.

I was on intermittent fasting 16/8 with a 1200 daily calorie target, and a goal of 10k steps a day.

I also had daily protein and fiber targets as well as water and electrolytes EOD. That gave me a 27% loss in 7 months or a total of 63lbs. No way I could do that without Tirz, and I am lucky that I responded well to it, some are not as lucky and I recognize that.