Moving from BAC water over to BAC Saline: why, and how it went

[Flash-BCR]

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

My confusion was over Saline with BA vs without...I'm certain I read that from you, about using Saline no BA with the Mots, and started worrying I'd ordered unusable Saline with the BA...this thread cleared a lot of that up though...

My MOTS-c is 10mg, so I may order some Saline w/o BA, since at 10mg a vial is 2-3 doses. My thinking is that over a week or two, from first pin to finishing the vial, bacterial growth probably won't be too bad if the recon is clean....Thanks!

 

[eidos]

Flash-BCR said:

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

My confusion was over Saline with BA vs without...I'm certain I read that from you, about using Saline no BA with the Mots, and started worrying I'd ordered unusable Saline with the BA...this thread cleared a lot of that up though...

My MOTS-c is 10mg, so I may order some Saline w/o BA, since at 10mg a vial is 2-3 doses. My thinking is that over a week or two, from first pin to finishing the vial, bacterial growth probably won't be too bad if the recon is clean....Thanks!

Saline BA is perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned, particularly if you can get it easily. We just don't have it here in the EU, outside of peptide sellers charging exorbitant prices.

What I do have is 10 ml vials of BA water (kaishui* from China plus some 10% NaCl, so I can make my own saline BA. Haven't needed it so far.

* kaishui is boiled water for the tea

Reta currently gives me two doses per vial, and Tirz three. It isn't practical to use with pens, since a bit is wasted in the dead space. I'm going to try pre-filling polypropylene syringes and keeping them in the fridge — insulin keeps well that way for two months. That removes the risk of a septum being punctured over several weeks where a biofilm could form.

 

[Camlbacker]

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

What dilution are you running with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I'd been on 4ml/40mg vial and moving it into a bigger vial, since I prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but on the vial just before I switched to BAC Saline I used only 2ml. I wanted a like-for-like comparison of BAC against BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but so far what I'm finding is that the BAC Saline is a little better vis-a-vis ISR, not the improvement I'd hoped for. In the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy at this ratio, if a bit less than before. My next vial, a week or two out, gets diluted at my previous usual 4ml/40mg, and hopefully that delivers the difference I need. Going beyond a 10mg/ml dilution isn't something I see myself doing, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

Another route might be sourcing some sterile saline with no BA in it, if that can even be found on this side of the pond, and seeing how it behaves. My own sense, though, is that BA isn't the culprit — the Mots is. Reta and Gluta bring me a lot more BA per shot and neither provokes anything, though the BA could still be a small contributing factor. As I posted up above, getting Mots-C ISRs eliminated or minimized would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

 

[eidos]

Camlbacker said:

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

What dilution are you running with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I'd been on 4ml/40mg vial and moving it into a bigger vial, since I prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but on the vial just before I switched to BAC Saline I used only 2ml. I wanted a like-for-like comparison of BAC against BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but so far what I'm finding is that the BAC Saline is a little better vis-a-vis ISR, not the improvement I'd hoped for. In the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy at this ratio, if a bit less than before. My next vial, a week or two out, gets diluted at my previous usual 4ml/40mg, and hopefully that delivers the difference I need. Going beyond a 10mg/ml dilution isn't something I see myself doing, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

Another route might be sourcing some sterile saline with no BA in it, if that can even be found on this side of the pond, and seeing how it behaves. My own sense, though, is that BA isn't the culprit — the Mots is. Reta and Gluta bring me a lot more BA per shot and neither provokes anything, though the BA could still be a small contributing factor. As I posted up above, getting Mots-C ISRs eliminated or minimized would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

I have some MS40. Small start this time: 2.5 mg in 0.15 ml, which works out around 16 mg/ml (calculated because you asked; I don't find the information useful). That's 2.4 ml of solvent. Nothing at the injection site.

An article I read compared benzyl alcohol against phenol, meta-cresol and the rest with peptides in solution. More aggregates showed up with BA. That is likely why phenol is what Mounjaro's KwikPens use. It doesn't sting any more either (I was on them for 6 months).

Nobody has tested it for MOTS-c, so it isn't a certainty, but we can't rule it out. Filtering it might help — worth a try.

 

[amosmylove]

Chili777 said:

A great test would be analysing degradation at 0/15/30/45 days across a select group of peptides in BAC Saline. Mots-C, Tirz, Reta, Epitalon and BPC, say. Reta may already have been done, but I haven't seen that test — only assumptions that saline would be detrimental based on Reta's structure. Degradation tests of these peps with regular BAC do exist, I believe, so this would be an excellent follow-up.

Same thought here. Cost efficiency right now doesn't matter much if your peps start degrading a good deal faster — that makes it a non-starter.

 

[team_chocolatine]

Camlbacker said:

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

What dilution are you running with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I'd been on 4ml/40mg vial and moving it into a bigger vial, since I prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but on the vial just before I switched to BAC Saline I used only 2ml. I wanted a like-for-like comparison of BAC against BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but so far what I'm finding is that the BAC Saline is a little better vis-a-vis ISR, not the improvement I'd hoped for. In the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy at this ratio, if a bit less than before. My next vial, a week or two out, gets diluted at my previous usual 4ml/40mg, and hopefully that delivers the difference I need. Going beyond a 10mg/ml dilution isn't something I see myself doing, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

Another route might be sourcing some sterile saline with no BA in it, if that can even be found on this side of the pond, and seeing how it behaves. My own sense, though, is that BA isn't the culprit — the Mots is. Reta and Gluta bring me a lot more BA per shot and neither provokes anything, though the BA could still be a small contributing factor. As I posted up above, getting Mots-C ISRs eliminated or minimized would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

Mots-c reactions are wrecking me too! .. and discontinuing for now. Over to Hospira saline bac, and I dropped the dilution from 10mg/ml to 6.67 mg/ml. Mots-c from 2 different vendors has been tried, always filtered. The itch and redness come on immediately, then within hours a lump forms under the skin. Even though the solution shows no cloudiness or gelling, there seem to be very very tiny bubbles, (not foam-like) that won't disperse in the syringe. You'd have to look very close up to notice. A BA free sterile saline would be worth trying if I could lay hands on one, but like you, I suspect BA might not be the thing that matters.

 

[Torque]

Paid way to much just to get a bottle of BAC saline shipped here, purely to try with mots-c. The itchy red spot I normally get clears in about an hour. One time it stuck around something like 4 days and itched far worse, though. Since then I've been much more careful about making sure it's room temp before injecting, which I never bothered with before. I'd love it if the saline did the trick. As it stands my 10mg vials of mots-c only last me a week.

 

[team_chocolatine]

Torque said:

Paid way to much just to get a bottle of BAC saline shipped here, purely to try with mots-c. The itchy red spot I normally get clears in about an hour. One time it stuck around something like 4 days and itched far worse, though. Since then I've been much more careful about making sure it's room temp before injecting, which I never bothered with before. I'd love it if the saline did the trick. As it stands my 10mg vials of mots-c only last me a week.

Ugh, a nasty Mots-c reaction dragged on for days for me as well! Gutted that the saline bac doesn't seem to cut the itch.

 

[TRS123]

team_chocolatine said:

Camlbacker said:

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

What dilution are you running with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I'd been on 4ml/40mg vial and moving it into a bigger vial, since I prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but on the vial just before I switched to BAC Saline I used only 2ml. I wanted a like-for-like comparison of BAC against BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but so far what I'm finding is that the BAC Saline is a little better vis-a-vis ISR, not the improvement I'd hoped for. In the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy at this ratio, if a bit less than before. My next vial, a week or two out, gets diluted at my previous usual 4ml/40mg, and hopefully that delivers the difference I need. Going beyond a 10mg/ml dilution isn't something I see myself doing, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

Another route might be sourcing some sterile saline with no BA in it, if that can even be found on this side of the pond, and seeing how it behaves. My own sense, though, is that BA isn't the culprit — the Mots is. Reta and Gluta bring me a lot more BA per shot and neither provokes anything, though the BA could still be a small contributing factor. As I posted up above, getting Mots-C ISRs eliminated or minimized would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

Mots-c reactions are wrecking me too! .. and discontinuing for now. Over to Hospira saline bac, and I dropped the dilution from 10mg/ml to 6.67 mg/ml. Mots-c from 2 different vendors has been tried, always filtered. The itch and redness come on immediately, then within hours a lump forms under the skin. Even though the solution shows no cloudiness or gelling, there seem to be very very tiny bubbles, (not foam-like) that won't disperse in the syringe. You'd have to look very close up to notice. A BA free sterile saline would be worth trying if I could lay hands on one, but like you, I suspect BA might not be the thing that matters.

Try deeper subq in the flank area 1/2” deep worked for me, no more itchy knots

 

[Venne]

TRS123 said:

team_chocolatine said:

Camlbacker said:

eidos said:

0.9% NaCl (without BA) has been in use here for a good month now across 2S31, MOTS-c, and GHK-Cu. No reaction, no more induration, no more bruising. Switching to the 3x.05ml multipin had already cut down the problems with GHK-Cu, but it still sometimes caused bruising. MOTS-c is also getting diluted more than before. Pens with 32G 4mm Embecta 5-bevel needles (formerly BD).

For Tirz, Reta, and KPV I'm sticking with BA, whose cartridges last longer.

Another thread reported that NaCl works with Tirz; some is in Kwikpens, in fact.

Reta appears to aggregate with salinity. We'll have to wait on the pharmaceutical formulations and the patent for more.

What dilution are you running with Mots-C and the Sterile Saline? I'd been on 4ml/40mg vial and moving it into a bigger vial, since I prefer 10mg/ml where practical and practicable, but on the vial just before I switched to BAC Saline I used only 2ml. I wanted a like-for-like comparison of BAC against BAC Saline at the same dilution ratio ie: apples to apples, but so far what I'm finding is that the BAC Saline is a little better vis-a-vis ISR, not the improvement I'd hoped for. In the strictest scientific vernacular, I'm still itchy and bitchy at this ratio, if a bit less than before. My next vial, a week or two out, gets diluted at my previous usual 4ml/40mg, and hopefully that delivers the difference I need. Going beyond a 10mg/ml dilution isn't something I see myself doing, though I suppose I might if it comes to that.

Another route might be sourcing some sterile saline with no BA in it, if that can even be found on this side of the pond, and seeing how it behaves. My own sense, though, is that BA isn't the culprit — the Mots is. Reta and Gluta bring me a lot more BA per shot and neither provokes anything, though the BA could still be a small contributing factor. As I posted up above, getting Mots-C ISRs eliminated or minimized would go a long way toward making this experiment a success, at least for myself.

Mots-c reactions are wrecking me too! .. and discontinuing for now. Over to Hospira saline bac, and I dropped the dilution from 10mg/ml to 6.67 mg/ml. Mots-c from 2 different vendors has been tried, always filtered. The itch and redness come on immediately, then within hours a lump forms under the skin. Even though the solution shows no cloudiness or gelling, there seem to be very very tiny bubbles, (not foam-like) that won't disperse in the syringe. You'd have to look very close up to notice. A BA free sterile saline would be worth trying if I could lay hands on one, but like you, I suspect BA might not be the thing that matters.

Try deeper subq in the flank area 1/2” deep worked for me, no more itchy knots

So depth is the culprit, then?

 

[restingbeachface]

team_chocolatine said:

Torque said:

Paid way to much just to get a bottle of BAC saline shipped here, purely to try with mots-c. The itchy red spot I normally get clears in about an hour. One time it stuck around something like 4 days and itched far worse, though. Since then I've been much more careful about making sure it's room temp before injecting, which I never bothered with before. I'd love it if the saline did the trick. As it stands my 10mg vials of mots-c only last me a week.

Ugh, a nasty Mots-c reaction dragged on for days for me as well! Gutted that the saline bac doesn't seem to cut the itch.

Darn, that's disappointing. The saline bac might get a go from me anyway until kpv is on the table. Last time I pinned mots-c the reaction came out milder but still left me uncomfortable for a couple of days. No reaction at all would be highly preferable lol.

 

[Isabella Rogers]

That's a compelling contrast. I'd be interested in hearing what you find in later updates using BAC Saline, particularly in combination with Mots-C. HerbiLabs has come up in conversation too, so learning how their BAC water stacks up would be useful.

 

[Isabella Rogers]

A comparison worth noting. Following your progress with BAC saline would be something I'd like to see, MOTS-C in particular. HerbiLabs has also come up in what I've come across, so learning how its BAC water stacks up would add another useful angle.