MOTS-C and SS31

[cloratheshadow]

Is cycling SS31 mandatory in order to see results from mots? I took my initial 2mg shot of mots and I'm questioning whether SS31 truly has to be part of the routine. The pricing I've come across for it isn't what I'd call reasonable, and from what I understand it can leave you feeling seriously wiped out. I already deal with constant fatigue. Does only a certain subset of users actually require it? On top of that, how soon should MOTS-C effects show up so I can tell whether my whole approach needs rethinking?

 

[wulf00777]

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

 

[cloratheshadow]

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

 

[wulf00777]

cloratheshadow said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

Yeah, that's what everyone keeps saying to me, but nothing else has done the job and I feel okay, so I'm sticking with it. Those who've never dealt with lifelong obesity just don't get how hard it is.

 

[Notthatguy]

wulf00777 said:

cloratheshadow said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

Yeah, that's what everyone keeps saying to me, but nothing else has done the job and I feel okay, so I'm sticking with it. Those who've never dealt with lifelong obesity just don't get how hard it is.

I'm in the same boat as you, man... though 800 calories, wow.

 

[wulf00777]

Notthatguy said:

wulf00777 said:

cloratheshadow said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

Yeah, that's what everyone keeps saying to me, but nothing else has done the job and I feel okay, so I'm sticking with it. Those who've never dealt with lifelong obesity just don't get how hard it is.

I'm in the same boat as you, man... though 800 calories, wow.

Yeah, keeping any sort of life going on 800 calories is really tough, but none of that will mean anything if I'm not around.

 

[myopicmystic]

wulf00777 said:

cloratheshadow said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

Yeah, that's what everyone keeps saying to me, but nothing else has done the job and I feel okay, so I'm sticking with it. Those who've never dealt with lifelong obesity just don't get how hard it is.

Getting back above 1000 would be good, since 800 has to feel awful.

On the MOTSc plus SS31 question, I’m still not sure either. What you want out of the MOTSc probably shapes the answer. When I finally get to the mitochondrial protocol, my guess is I’ll run the SS31 first. What kind of pricing are you finding?

 

[Collo4sho]

cloratheshadow said:

Is cycling SS31 mandatory in order to see results from mots? I took my initial 2mg shot of mots and I'm questioning whether SS31 truly has to be part of the routine. The pricing I've come across for it isn't what I'd call reasonable, and from what I understand it can leave you feeling seriously wiped out. I already deal with constant fatigue. Does only a certain subset of users actually require it? On top of that, how soon should MOTS-C effects show up so I can tell whether my whole approach needs rethinking?

Same thing I'm wondering. I've just begun ss31, and motsc will be added a week from now. The reason I'm separating them is so that, should any clear effect show up, I'll be able to tell which compound caused it. Up to this point, ss31 hasn't produced anything I can notice. Since it costs so much, I won't buy more once this cycle ends unless I decide it's needed.

 

[Ryanking11]

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

I believe consuming only 800 calories a day would be very risky. Please be cautious, because your body could begin shutting down.

I went directly to MOTS-c every other day and never took SS31 beforehand.

 

[KosmikVoidX]

If it matters to you at all, I began mots-c a few weeks back and noticed nothing. Actually, my energy might have gotten worse, though that could simply have been whatever was going on in my life.

That said, I went ahead and started ss-31, which I had planned to run first, but the mots showed up ahead of it and I'm impatient lol. So I began a protocol of ss31 5mg 5 days per week, with mots 5mg on the remaining 2 days, for 3 weeks, then switching to mots 5MG M,W,F and nad on the other days. I came across that particular protocol somewhere online, and because I was already using the mots, I figured I'd give it a shot.

Anyway, after I added the ss-31, my energy has clearly gotten better following the first week. So it could be worth a try if the mots seems to be doing nothing for you!

 

[chewonmysac]

cloratheshadow said:

Is cycling SS31 mandatory in order to see results from mots? I took my initial 2mg shot of mots and I'm questioning whether SS31 truly has to be part of the routine. The pricing I've come across for it isn't what I'd call reasonable, and from what I understand it can leave you feeling seriously wiped out. I already deal with constant fatigue. Does only a certain subset of users actually require it? On top of that, how soon should MOTS-C effects show up so I can tell whether my whole approach needs rethinking?

I've moved my SS-31 injections to the middle of the afternoon and it's working really well. For MOTS-c, I take 5mg in the morning on an empty stomach, every other day. This is cycle number 2 for me — during the first one, it definitely left me feeling tired in the morning. I'm currently on day 11 out of 30 for SS-31, and the combination is starting to really kick in.

 

[Tcah2456]

cloratheshadow said:

Is cycling SS31 mandatory in order to see results from mots? I took my initial 2mg shot of mots and I'm questioning whether SS31 truly has to be part of the routine. The pricing I've come across for it isn't what I'd call reasonable, and from what I understand it can leave you feeling seriously wiped out. I already deal with constant fatigue. Does only a certain subset of users actually require it? On top of that, how soon should MOTS-C effects show up so I can tell whether my whole approach needs rethinking?

Whether MOTS-c works well hinges on the state of your mitochondria. Here's a protocol to consider:

Take it in the morning while fasted, 5-10mg daily, totaling 15-30mg each week, divided across 3 doses per week.

Run it for 4 weeks, amounting to 60-120mg per cycle.

Then take 4 weeks off.

 

[mybodyisasewer]

Ryanking11 said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

I believe consuming only 800 calories a day would be very risky. Please be cautious, because your body could begin shutting down.

I went directly to MOTS-c every other day and never took SS31 beforehand.

If you knew how many days some of our forebears survived on 0 calories, it would shock you.

 

[woundcarping]

mybodyisasewer said:

Ryanking11 said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

I believe consuming only 800 calories a day would be very risky. Please be cautious, because your body could begin shutting down.

I went directly to MOTS-c every other day and never took SS31 beforehand.

If you knew how many days some of our forebears survived on 0 calories, it would shock you.

Sure, except every single one of them ended up dead!

 

[cloratheshadow]

mybodyisasewer said:

Ryanking11 said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

I believe consuming only 800 calories a day would be very risky. Please be cautious, because your body could begin shutting down.

I went directly to MOTS-c every other day and never took SS31 beforehand.

If you knew how many days some of our forebears survived on 0 calories, it would shock you.

Back then, people were lucky to reach 30.

 

[dancs]

cloratheshadow said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

If you've spent more than 6-12 months dropping weight or attempting to, and plateaus keep hitting you from every direction while you push calories all the way down to 800, my strongest possible advice is to begin again from scratch.

What that means: pause. Give yourself 30-60 days off your current stack(s), then either switch to different peptides OR simply rest so your body's tolerance can drop back down.

OR

If training hasn't been part of your routine, or you're not even doing something as small as walking after meals, that's what I'd add. Starving your body until it flips into extreme mode - fighting as hard as it can to hold onto every calorie (which is exactly why those last few pounds won't budge) - isn't the answer. Honestly, it sounds like your body is starving to death. A reset is what you need.

Or shuffle your approach. If Mots-c is new for you, maybe keep it, but drop Tirz and bring in reta and/or AOD-9604.

Bring calories up to maintenance, or a few hundred over it - yes, some weight may come back, but over time your body will normalize and you'll be able to go back on the original compounds and start losing again.

Or, at minimum, walk right after you eat...

These suggestions come from what I've lived through with long term weight loss, running different peptides/compounds, and exercise.

Every situation is relative, I get that, but 800 calories is crazy....

Nothing but love for you, and I feel lucky to be here because this forum is full of good people!

 

[Ryanking11]

mybodyisasewer said:

Ryanking11 said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

I believe consuming only 800 calories a day would be very risky. Please be cautious, because your body could begin shutting down.

I went directly to MOTS-c every other day and never took SS31 beforehand.

If you knew how many days some of our forebears survived on 0 calories, it would shock you.

That was the full extent of their knowledge. It wasn't a decision they made.

 

[lessthanhalf]

800 calories really isn't that drastic. A large body of research exists on VLCDs—very low calorie diets—where people take in roughly 400 calories daily, occasionally for extended stretches lasting close to a year. Before GLP medications existed, this was how individuals with severe obesity attempted weight loss without surgery. Protein typically makes up the bulk of those calories.

At that level of intake, electrolyte disturbances become a real possibility, and tiredness tends to be worse, so having a doctor monitor things somewhat seems wise.

Taking in so few calories and only barely losing weight would be unusual—unless substantial weight has already come off, or a low intake has been maintained for a long time, causing metabolic adaptation to drag energy expenditure down considerably. Being very small could also explain it. In my own case, expenditure fell by half going from 145kg to 75 kg. Early on, 1600-1800 kcal/day produced 6kg of loss per month; once I reached 75kg, the loss halted and that same intake became what was needed just to maintain. Still, 1600-1800 is far easier to sustain than 800, and prior to starting GLP's, sticking to it was genuinely difficult and meant being hungry almost constantly. Regaining the weight would also put me at serious health risk. From your remark that 800 calories beats being dead, I gather you may face something similar.

On the idea of taking breaks, I'd have to push back. No evidence supports tolerance developing to the long-term weight loss effects of GLP drugs, with perhaps 1 exception: a recent animal study where mice given GLP's intermittently lost much less weight. That's a single study, not replicated, not in humans—but the effect was quite strong and unexpected. Some people here have also reported struggling to lose weight after restarting GLP's. Often that's simply because they've already shed a good amount of weight, and at that point the drugs work to block regain rather than drive further loss—effectively a stall. If the stop-start effect were genuine, though, it wouldn't be doing you any favors.

Are you currently on 15mg of tirz? Higher doses offer metabolic benefits that could boost weight loss or let you eat more while losing at the same pace, if you haven't gone that high yet. Reta is also worth a look—its glucagon agonism adds another 1 to 200 kcal/day of energy expenditure, and every bit counts. Much depends on what you've already tried and your side effects, though.

 

[wulf00777]

Ryanking11 said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

I believe consuming only 800 calories a day would be very risky. Please be cautious, because your body could begin shutting down.

I went directly to MOTS-c every other day and never took SS31 beforehand.

Two days ago I underwent ultrasound scans of every organ, and I plan to repeat those checks after each additional 25lbs of weight loss. Since I'm located in Colombia, testing costs very little.

 

[wulf00777]

dancs said:

cloratheshadow said:

wulf00777 said:

Someone told me that spacing motsc out to every other day keeps the fatigue away. Personally, neither motsc nor Ss31 has produced any noticeable effect for me, though at least the combination of tirz, motsc, and cutting my calories down to 800 has me dropping weight at last.

800 is really on the far end do you track your food on a scale? Have you gotten labs? 800 is not something an adult should be consuming

If you've spent more than 6-12 months dropping weight or attempting to, and plateaus keep hitting you from every direction while you push calories all the way down to 800, my strongest possible advice is to begin again from scratch.

What that means: pause. Give yourself 30-60 days off your current stack(s), then either switch to different peptides OR simply rest so your body's tolerance can drop back down.

OR

If training hasn't been part of your routine, or you're not even doing something as small as walking after meals, that's what I'd add. Starving your body until it flips into extreme mode - fighting as hard as it can to hold onto every calorie (which is exactly why those last few pounds won't budge) - isn't the answer. Honestly, it sounds like your body is starving to death. A reset is what you need.

Or shuffle your approach. If Mots-c is new for you, maybe keep it, but drop Tirz and bring in reta and/or AOD-9604.

Bring calories up to maintenance, or a few hundred over it - yes, some weight may come back, but over time your body will normalize and you'll be able to go back on the original compounds and start losing again.

Or, at minimum, walk right after you eat...

These suggestions come from what I've lived through with long term weight loss, running different peptides/compounds, and exercise.

Every situation is relative, I get that, but 800 calories is crazy....

Nothing but love for you, and I feel lucky to be here because this forum is full of good people!

The issue is really just intense metabolic adaptation from all those years of diets, keto, fasting, and a very low calorie way of living. My exercise background is even more intense—if you saw it, you'd understand. So if 800 is enough to drop weight, nothing is going to stop me from pushing forward.