Mots-c 3rd week on and opposite reaction

[ultima thule]

Asked the question in some other Mots-c related thread, but didn't get an answer, hence this thread.

Anyway I'm on the 3rd week of Mots-c cycle. It is 3.3mg 3 times a week. First 2 weeks were quite alright. Was feeling a bit more energetic, but maybe just a placebo effect. But 3rd week is pretty horrible. I feel completely exhausted, with no energy...whole day sleepy, tired, struggle to workout or even do any light chores. I'm 49 and for the last 5 years roughly, run a healthy life. I'm on high protein diet, don't eat junk, no drugs or alcohol anymore...but most of my life I didn’t run too much healthy lifestyle, so my mitochondria might be in not the perfect state...anyway I didn't start with SS-31 protocol before Mots-c cycle...now read a lot, that symptoms I have are quite common in a 2nd - 3rd week, because my system is switching to the different way of using energy, etc, caused by Mots-c. And it should be converted on the following weeks to the required state, with an energy improvement etc. But the question is should I get through this and continue the cycle, or better stop it, and run the SS-31 cycle at first, and after that, get back to Mots-c. Any suggestions guys?

 

[Clavicular's Hammer]

ultima thule said:


Asked the question in some other Mots-c related thread, but didn't get an answer, hence this thread.

Anyway I'm on the 3rd week of Mots-c cycle. It is 3.3mg 3 times a week. First 2 weeks were quite alright. Was feeling a bit more energetic, but maybe just a placebo effect. But 3rd week is pretty horrible. I feel completely exhausted, with no energy...whole day sleepy, tired, struggle to workout or even do any light chores. I'm 49 and for the last 5 years roughly, run a healthy life. I'm on high protein diet, don't eat junk, no drugs or alcohol anymore...but most of my life I didn’t run too much healthy lifestyle, so my mitochondria might be in not the perfect state...anyway I didn't start with SS-31 protocol before Mots-c cycle...now read a lot, that symptoms I have are quite common in a 2nd - 3rd week, because my system is switching to the different way of using energy, etc, caused by Mots-c. And it should be converted on the following weeks to the required state, with an energy improvement etc. But the question is should I get through this and continue the cycle, or better stop it, and run the SS-31 cycle at first, and after that, get back to Mots-c. Any suggestions guys?

Click to expand...

I would say never push through anything with peps personally. Although I’ve been fortunate and had limited negative side effects so far.

CJC which I love has been causing me some issues and I plan to stop it which is sad for me.

Are you taking the MOT-C fasted and doing a fasted workout? Lots of us seem to get good results doing that. The MOT-C is suspected, by activating AMPK to tell your body to pull energy from fat, glucose and macromolecules in the body thus making a great fasted workout aid for losing weight.

 

[ultima thule]

Clavicular's Hammer said:


I would say never push through anything with peps personally. Although I’ve been fortunate and had limited negative side effects so far.

CJC which I love has been causing me some issues and I plan to stop it which is sad for me.

Are you taking the MOT-C fasted and doing a fasted workout? Lots of us seem to get good results doing that. The MOT-C is suspected, by activating AMPK to tell your body to pull energy from fat, glucose and macromolecules in the body thus making a great fasted workout aid for losing weight.

Click to expand...

Basically I run IF. 2 meals per day. 1st meal around noon, second after gym which is around 7pm. High protein. So yes I get Mots-c fasted, around 7am, and workout fasted indeed. Also for the last 4 years I'm on a low carb diet. For the first year was on keto, so my body is adapted to sourcing energy from fat instead of glucose....

 

[eidos]

Here's where MOTS-c comes into play:

(https://www.cellsignal.com/pathways/ampk-signaling-pathway)

We have to keep in mind that less than half of it has been discovered, and we understand even less. MOTS-c was discovered only ten years ago.

Those who are certain about what it does are the lucky ones. Personally, I don't know. That's something I have in common with John Snow, at least.

But anyway, that's not going to help you. Let's consider a few hypotheses.

The first thing I'll check is blood sugar. My first few cycles of MOTS-c caused nighttime hypoglycemia that lasted about an hour. The cycle I just started keeps my blood sugar about 20 mg/dl lower than when I was on Reta alone.

That's enough to explain severe fatigue.

Do you eat more than 25-50 grams of carbohydrates a day? If you’re in ketosis, that won’t go well with MOTS-c.

The SS-31 is fine; at the same time, it’s okay. Most of the alternating protocols out there have no biological basis. It’s often because it's expensive. For me, there’s a twofold effect. Some days it’s as if I’ve just breathed in a bottle of pure oxygen. And an anti-fatigue effect sets in over time; I feel it between cycles (I take a break because I’m too lazy to set up all the equipment to reconstitute it .

The game-changer is 5-amino-1-methylquinolinium. I took 10 mg of it two hours ago, and I (almost) want to go for a run.

I haven't read anything credible about a metabolic pathway that would change after just a few weeks. When we switch from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism, it takes a few seconds: imagine if Bolt or Marchand took three weeks to finish their race.

The ketogenic state gradually takes over after about three days of fasting (depending on your reserves).

If you have a reference (on NCBI or equivalent, not YT or Reddit, please), I'd love to read it.

Hyperborea was such a beautiful place ;-)

 

[ultima thule]

eidos said:


Here's where MOTS-c comes into play:

(https://www.cellsignal.com/pathways/ampk-signaling-pathway)

We have to keep in mind that less than half of it has been discovered, and we understand even less. MOTS-c was discovered only ten years ago.

Those who are certain about what it does are the lucky ones. Personally, I don't know. That's something I have in common with John Snow, at least.

But anyway, that's not going to help you. Let's consider a few hypotheses.

The first thing I'll check is blood sugar. My first few cycles of MOTS-c caused nighttime hypoglycemia that lasted about an hour. The cycle I just started keeps my blood sugar about 20 mg/dl lower than when I was on Reta alone.

That's enough to explain severe fatigue.

Do you eat more than 25-50 grams of carbohydrates a day? If you’re in ketosis, that won’t go well with MOTS-c.

The SS-31 is fine; at the same time, it’s okay. Most of the alternating protocols out there have no biological basis. It’s often because it's expensive. For me, there’s a twofold effect. Some days it’s as if I’ve just breathed in a bottle of pure oxygen. And an anti-fatigue effect sets in over time; I feel it between cycles (I take a break because I’m too lazy to set up all the equipment to reconstitute it .

The game-changer is 5-amino-1-methylquinolinium. I took 10 mg of it two hours ago, and I (almost) want to go for a run.

I haven't read anything credible about a metabolic pathway that would change after just a few weeks. When we switch from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism, it takes a few seconds: imagine if Bolt or Marchand took three weeks to finish their race.

The ketogenic state gradually takes over after about three days of fasting (depending on your reserves).

If you have a reference (on NCBI or equivalent, not YT or Reddit, please), I'd love to read it.

Hyperborea was such a beautiful place ;-)

Click to expand...

That carbohydrates deficit might be my case...as I said I'm on a low carb diet for the last few years. Do not track macro too precisely, but Im defo under 50g of carbs per day.

 

[eidos]

ultima thule said:


That carbohydrates deficit might be my case...as I said I'm on a low carb diet for the last few years. Do not track macro too precisely, but Im defo under 50g of carbs per day.

Click to expand...

Look no further.

I've been consuming between 10 and 25 grams a day for the past six years, but I have stubborn diabetes and I can't get into ketogenic mode.

You could get more out of the SS-31.

 

[ultima thule]

eidos said:


Look no further.

I've been consuming between 10 and 25 grams a day for the past six years, but I have stubborn diabetes and I can't get into ketogenic mode.

You could get more out of the SS-31.

Click to expand...

Well, what would you suggest now? Boost carbohydrates intake and continue Mots-c cycle up to 6 weeks, and see how it goes?

 

[eidos]

ultima thule said:


Well, what would you suggest now? Boost carbohydrates intake and continue Mots-c cycle up to 6 weeks, and see how it goes?

Click to expand...

If you've benefited from the low-carb diet for so long, I'll stick with it.

MOTS-c is a good option if you develop insulin resistance or as a partial alternative to metformin. However, NHS studies from the 2010s showed that a low-carb diet (starting at 400 kcal) was just as effective for insulin resistance and blood sugar management.

It's a small peptide that seems pretty robust, so it shouldn't be a problem to store it for a few years.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:


If you've benefited from the low-carb diet for so long, I'll stick with it.

MOTS-c is a good option if you develop insulin resistance or as a partial alternative to metformin. However, NHS studies from the 2010s showed that a low-carb diet (starting at 400 kcal) was just as effective for insulin resistance and blood sugar management.

It's a small peptide that seems pretty robust, so it shouldn't be a problem to store it for a few years.

Click to expand...

I wonder if it could be caloric deficit?

When I did my first cycle I was at 1200 kcal a day and was oft3en feeling fatigue

My second cycle was after goal weight and calorie increase and I felt the energy effects.

Here is an NCBI article on GLP! fatigue/calorie deficit





Image unavailable




Nutritional Priorities to Support GLP-1 Therapy for Obesity: A Joint Advisory From the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, the American Society for Nutrition, the Obesity Medicine Association, and the Obesity Society - PMC



Glucagon-like peptide 1 receptor agonists and combination medications (hereafter collectively referred to as GLP-1s) are shifting the treatment landscape for obesity. However, real-world challenges and limited clinician and public knowledge on ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[eidos]

Skidude said:


I wonder if it could be caloric deficit?

When I did my first cycle I was at 1200 kcal a day and was oft3en feeling fatigue

My second cycle was after goal weight and calorie increase and I felt the energy effects.

Here is an NCBI article on GLP! fatigue/calorie deficit

View attachment 30403




Nutritional Priorities to Support GLP-1 Therapy for Obesity: A Joint Advisory From the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, the American Society for Nutrition, the Obesity Medicine Association, and the Obesity Society - PMC



Glucagon-like peptide 1 receptor agonists and combination medications (hereafter collectively referred to as GLP-1s) are shifting the treatment landscape for obesity. However, real-world challenges and limited clinician and public knowledge on ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Click to expand...

Yes, the calorie deficit doesn't help, but the basal metabolic rate plays "catch me if you can," and if he's been doing that for years, he must have reached a balance without the fatigue that seems to be specific to MOTS-c.

Thanks for the article.

I do experience a significant loss of appetite with Reta, and it's hard to get the 50-60 g of protein some days. My sodium levels have dropped, and I have a lot of episodes of low blood pressure, worsened by the heat.

Multivitamins and electrolytes are somewhat mandatory.

But the benefits are so great that it's worth it.

 

[Post_Tenebras_Pep]

Thanks for this thread. I'm on reta and about to start a round of ss-31 & Mots-C

 

[OldSchool]

What protocol are people using for SS-31, I have seen 5 to 10mg daily which seems very expensive to run? How do I know if I need it or if it was worth the money? I have been running MOTS-C fasted before workouts and felt the energy boost.

 

[Lovedog100]

I'm on my second week of MOTS-C at 2mg 5 times a week. I'm not sure if I'm having any effect or not. The only thing that I have noticed is my cardio is easier. I started sprinting for a minute and then ten minutes at regular speed. After starting MOTS-C I'm doing two minute sprints. I may have moved up without it, I don't know. When I first started the sprints, I left the gym exhausted. Now I'm doing twice as much and feel great after. It may be connected.

 

[Skidude]

OldSchool said:


What protocol are people using for SS-31, I have seen 5 to 10mg daily which seems very expensive to run? How do I know if I need it or if it was worth the money? I have been running MOTS-C fasted before workouts and felt the energy boost.

Click to expand...

My last cycle

Image unavailable

Age is a big factor as Mitochondria damage can occur over time.

In late 50s I was confident I would benefit.

 

[Chili777]

OldSchool said:


What protocol are people using for SS-31, I have seen 5 to 10mg daily which seems very expensive to run? How do I know if I need it or if it was worth the money? I have been running MOTS-C fasted before workouts and felt the energy boost.

Click to expand...

The mitochondrial protocol suggests 4 mg daily of SS-31 for 6 weeks. I ran SS -31 and Mots-c sequentially. There are newer protocols that claim results with combined usage, however we're talking about rat studies.

As was pointed out above by Eidos, if you're running on empty metabolically, these peptides can make things worse because they are increasing your mitochondrial energy, and that has to come from somewhere. Maintaining protein and carb levels is really required to get the most out of this protocol.

 

[eidos]

OldSchool said:


What protocol are people using for SS-31, I have seen 5 to 10mg daily which seems very expensive to run? How do I know if I need it or if it was worth the money? I have been running MOTS-C fasted before workouts and felt the energy boost.

Click to expand...

It will depend on your age and your health. If you're under ~50 and don't have heart, liver, or metabolic disease (etc.), you won't really benefit from it.

 

[TeresaHip]

I'm running ss31, mots , 5 amino and NAD together. Not seeing much difference but I'm going to continue on.

I did stop completely though for a couple weeks per Dr. I just went back on.

 

[OldSchool]

Chili777 said:


The mitochondrial protocol suggests 4 mg daily of SS-31 for 6 weeks. I ran SS -31 and Mots-c sequentially. There are newer protocols that claim results with combined usage, however we're talking about rat studies.

As was pointed out above by Eidos, if you're running on empty metabolically, these peptides can make things worse because they are increasing your mitochondrial energy, and that has to come from somewhere. Maintaining protein and carb levels is really required to get the most out of this protocol.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the protocol this is very helpful! I am already taking an 5 amino / NAD supplement so I have that covered. I will order some SS-31 and give this protocol a shot. For reference I am turning 62 this month but generally in good health. I am in the process of losing about 50 lbs I have put on over the last 30 years. 26 lbs down so far and getting close to 20% body fat so figured it might be helpful to give my energy systems a reboot.

 

[Chili777]

OldSchool said:


Thank you for the protocol this is very helpful! I am already taking an 5 amino / NAD supplement so I have that covered. I will order some SS-31 and give this protocol a shot. For reference I am turning 62 this month but generally in good health. I am in the process of losing about 50 lbs I have put on over the last 30 years. 26 lbs down so far and getting close to 20% body fat so figured it might be helpful to give my energy systems a reboot.

Click to expand...

Just a note: I found 5 mg of Mots-c to be too much for me, as it was like rocket fuel. I settled on 4 mg which was the sweet spot. Also, it's a good idea to titrate up the first week to gauge your response. Allergic reactions are known to occur with Mots-C. I went 1 mg, 2 mg and 3 mg MWF for that first week for that reason.

 

[Quatroskin]

Lovedog100 said:


I'm on my second week of MOTS-C at 2mg 5 times a week. I'm not sure if I'm having any effect or not. The only thing that I have noticed is my cardio is easier. I started sprinting for a minute and then ten minutes at regular speed. After starting MOTS-C I'm doing two minute sprints. I may have moved up without it, I don't know. When I first started the sprints, I left the gym exhausted. Now I'm doing twice as much and feel great after. It may be connected.

Click to expand...

I’m about to start with Mots C and was curious about the dosing. I’ve heard some run it like you (2mg) for 5 days a week and I’ve heard some people run 10 mg broken up on say a M W F so 3 days a week. Do you know if it matters what way to dose it is ?