Low Testosterone, but Dr. says im in a normal range?

[lessthanhalf]

Doctors handle low or borderline testosterone in wildly different ways. My own take is that this smells a bit sexist: a menopausal woman with symptoms isn't told no when she asks for hormone replacement, but a man whose test levels are low has to hunt for a doctor willing to actually treat him. Where I live, in Australia, being overweight alongside low test usually means no prescription at all — the official line is to drop weight first. I suspect the real issue is that people get uneasy about individuals steering their own testosterone; it's a strange cultural hangup. Over here, getting a script required an endocrinologist visit, and treatment was only approved because I had symptoms — essentially no libido — plus elevated fsh/lh. Had those numbers come back normal, the answer would have been no. In my own situation, I'd noticed my testicles had shrunk, which struck me as odd and was the reason I went to get checked. The US tends to be more relaxed about it.

Concerns about prostate cancer or heart disease risk are part of why this caution exists. At replacement doses, I believe the evidence is reasonably strong that heart disease risk doesn't rise, but the research isn't crystal clear, and some studies do point to increased risks. So a doctor who plays it safe, or who hasn't kept up with the newest research — and most general practitioners haven't, which is understandable given the near-infinite volume of research out there — will dodge prescribing whenever possible. It comes down to first do no harm. The other piece is that higher doses definitely cause trouble. Nobody on meso discusses the mental side effects of test, yet at higher doses anger and aggression problems are real and frequent, and depressed mood from sudden level drops is frequent too.

So your options are finding a doctor who's sympathetic, a clinic that specializes in test therapy, or going diy. Staying conservative with doses strikes me as wise, chiefly because high doses bring extra long-term risks.

 

[latviantower]

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

The first thing that jumped out at me from your labs is how absurd it is that the medical “authorities” still can't settle on a definition of “normal.” My sample was drawn at Quest, though Goodlabs handled the ordering and reporting. Turns out Goodlabs uses two tiers of normal - “low normal” (yellow) and “normal normal” (green). My total T came back at 453, and as you can see, that still doesn't reach the green. On top of that, Goodlabs flips to red at 1000, while Quest does it at 1100. At Goodlabs, someone with low T like you would be deep in the red - their cutoff for low is anything under 300. So yeah, it's a mess in my view.

My PCP refused to even order hormone labs, which means I'm figuring this out solo. I'm not about to go to Limitless Male or similar clinics and get gouged (my insurance is terrible). Ordering my own labs and remedies seems like the smarter path. Online communities (NON-Meso folks) are fantastic resources. Soooo….here's my stack: 175 mg test c per week (25 mg every morning, subq for gradual, steady uptake and reduced aromatization risk), 2 iu hgh before sleep, and 5 mg reta to offset the IGF bump from the hgh. That's my peptide holy trinity. Labs every 8 weeks, no exceptions.

Good luck Gr33dy! Btw, I get a kick out of your posts. I never saw the rant that apparently pushed the mods over the edge and landed you in the penalty box. I figure Zippity gets his laughs from strange places - autocorrect algorithms (Fuck Rocks) and probation status being just two examples? (as a McGill grad BSc’82, I can only assume he went to Concordia. Twisted sense of humor there.)

 

[UpDownLeftRightAS*]

A large body of literature exists regarding how endogenous testosterone synthesis works and the degree to which it varies. What date do you have in mind for drawing your next set of follow-up labs?

I've come across a number of threads about diet and lifestyle habits that may support things naturally, but should you prefer not to go directly onto full TRT, enclomiphene could be an option (as others have brought up). A few months back I began at 12.5 mg (roughly half a tablet) simply to gauge my response, and after around a month my numbers climbed from the 400s into the 700s. Natural production isn't suppressed by it, and I've even come across reports that 6.25 mg may suffice for certain individuals while yielding comparable outcomes.

My own primary care doctor declined to prescribe it as well -- he told me it fell outside his comfort zone and offered a referral to an endocrinologist. I brought up that services such as Hims provide it (though the cost can be roughly $2–4K annually), but in the end I obtained it from another source.

Also, this is likely already on your radar, but it bears repeating: sleep, stress, and calorie deficits can each lower testosterone by 10–30%. If a substantial calorie deficit has been part of your routine, that by itself might be a major contributor to your lab values.

Best of luck, man.

 

[Tbagger]

latviantower said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

The first thing that jumped out at me from your labs is how absurd it is that the medical “authorities” still can't settle on a definition of “normal.” My sample was drawn at Quest, though Goodlabs handled the ordering and reporting. Turns out Goodlabs uses two tiers of normal - “low normal” (yellow) and “normal normal” (green). My total T came back at 453, and as you can see, that still doesn't reach the green. On top of that, Goodlabs flips to red at 1000, while Quest does it at 1100. At Goodlabs, someone with low T like you would be deep in the red - their cutoff for low is anything under 300. So yeah, it's a mess in my view.

My PCP refused to even order hormone labs, which means I'm figuring this out solo. I'm not about to go to Limitless Male or similar clinics and get gouged (my insurance is terrible). Ordering my own labs and remedies seems like the smarter path. Online communities (NON-Meso folks) are fantastic resources. Soooo….here's my stack: 175 mg test c per week (25 mg every morning, subq for gradual, steady uptake and reduced aromatization risk), 2 iu hgh before sleep, and 5 mg reta to offset the IGF bump from the hgh. That's my peptide holy trinity. Labs every 8 weeks, no exceptions.

Good luck Gr33dy! Btw, I get a kick out of your posts. I never saw the rant that apparently pushed the mods over the edge and landed you in the penalty box. I figure Zippity gets his laughs from strange places - autocorrect algorithms (Fuck Rocks) and probation status being just two examples? (as a McGill grad BSc’82, I can only assume he went to Concordia. Twisted sense of humor there.)

Lately I keep noticing a pattern: physicians won't even authorize basic testing like labs. If my PCP shot me down when I wanted to investigate something, I'd walk out the door and get myself onto a waiting list at another clinic before you knew it. With my doctor, I'm direct — I tell her straight up that I'm a grown ass man, and I'm not there to seek approval or plead for anything. I've been open about the peptides I've looked into, and she's aware I've got the resourcefulness to source any peptide or pharmaceutical that's ever been produced. So she's pretty cool and will give me guidance and tell me whether my insurance will pick up whatever I'm requesting, but the call is mine if I'm willing to foot the bill. Obviously there are limits — I can't just stroll in and demand opiates or something like that. But turning down a hormone panel is simply bizarre and comes off as sketchy.

 

[igottapee]

Tbagger said:

latviantower said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

The first thing that jumped out at me from your labs is how absurd it is that the medical “authorities” still can't settle on a definition of “normal.” My sample was drawn at Quest, though Goodlabs handled the ordering and reporting. Turns out Goodlabs uses two tiers of normal - “low normal” (yellow) and “normal normal” (green). My total T came back at 453, and as you can see, that still doesn't reach the green. On top of that, Goodlabs flips to red at 1000, while Quest does it at 1100. At Goodlabs, someone with low T like you would be deep in the red - their cutoff for low is anything under 300. So yeah, it's a mess in my view.

My PCP refused to even order hormone labs, which means I'm figuring this out solo. I'm not about to go to Limitless Male or similar clinics and get gouged (my insurance is terrible). Ordering my own labs and remedies seems like the smarter path. Online communities (NON-Meso folks) are fantastic resources. Soooo….here's my stack: 175 mg test c per week (25 mg every morning, subq for gradual, steady uptake and reduced aromatization risk), 2 iu hgh before sleep, and 5 mg reta to offset the IGF bump from the hgh. That's my peptide holy trinity. Labs every 8 weeks, no exceptions.

Good luck Gr33dy! Btw, I get a kick out of your posts. I never saw the rant that apparently pushed the mods over the edge and landed you in the penalty box. I figure Zippity gets his laughs from strange places - autocorrect algorithms (Fuck Rocks) and probation status being just two examples? (as a McGill grad BSc’82, I can only assume he went to Concordia. Twisted sense of humor there.)

Lately I keep noticing a pattern: physicians won't even authorize basic testing like labs. If my PCP shot me down when I wanted to investigate something, I'd walk out the door and get myself onto a waiting list at another clinic before you knew it. With my doctor, I'm direct — I tell her straight up that I'm a grown ass man, and I'm not there to seek approval or plead for anything. I've been open about the peptides I've looked into, and she's aware I've got the resourcefulness to source any peptide or pharmaceutical that's ever been produced. So she's pretty cool and will give me guidance and tell me whether my insurance will pick up whatever I'm requesting, but the call is mine if I'm willing to foot the bill. Obviously there are limits — I can't just stroll in and demand opiates or something like that. But turning down a hormone panel is simply bizarre and comes off as sketchy.

Whether your insurance covers it, and what portions they do or don't pay for, is what determines everything.

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

UpDownLeftRightAS* said:

A large body of literature exists regarding how endogenous testosterone synthesis works and the degree to which it varies. What date do you have in mind for drawing your next set of follow-up labs?

I've come across a number of threads about diet and lifestyle habits that may support things naturally, but should you prefer not to go directly onto full TRT, enclomiphene could be an option (as others have brought up). A few months back I began at 12.5 mg (roughly half a tablet) simply to gauge my response, and after around a month my numbers climbed from the 400s into the 700s. Natural production isn't suppressed by it, and I've even come across reports that 6.25 mg may suffice for certain individuals while yielding comparable outcomes.

My own primary care doctor declined to prescribe it as well -- he told me it fell outside his comfort zone and offered a referral to an endocrinologist. I brought up that services such as Hims provide it (though the cost can be roughly $2–4K annually), but in the end I obtained it from another source.

Also, this is likely already on your radar, but it bears repeating: sleep, stress, and calorie deficits can each lower testosterone by 10–30%. If a substantial calorie deficit has been part of your routine, that by itself might be a major contributor to your lab values.

Best of luck, man.

For the enclomiphene plus tadalafil, H/H runs 100 a month, and that covers hormone panels at a minimum of every 3 months.

 

[swimmer]

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

 

[swimmer]

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

In my opinion, Enclo works well as a substitute for Test, though you may have to manage its side effects before you can reap the rewards of elevated testosterone. Keeping an eye on IGF-1, shbg, estroidal and free T through testing matters.

 

[Crumplestiltskin]

A lesson that has stuck with me through the years: the doctor works for me, and I can let them go. Plenty of primary care physicians I've had would not order standard labs, offered nothing when I brought up health issues (and didn't care to dig deeper), and on the whole gave me zero help.

Hearing the phrase "fire your doctor" completely shifted how I approached it.

 

[lessthanhalf]

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

ostarine has caught my attention. a study that paired it with semiglutide at very low doses looked interesting, and at 3mg it showed very little muscle loss. so far i havent located any pill source that has it in stock. at that dose the cost is ridiculously cheap, but splitting 25mg pills down to 3mg is going to be a pain. would you be willing to share what dose you are using?

 

[CNCCurrency]

Gr33dyOctopus said:

Airborne Daddy said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

Because you're crazy and we're friends, I'll tell you who I get my domestic oils from.... Primalpharma.org ..... he's on tiktok so I don't think it's a security breach....

Much appreciated!!! That website and the cost are great, thanks for the assist Airborne!!!

Yay!

Keep an eye on your hgb levels

 

[swimmer]

lessthanhalf said:

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

ostarine has caught my attention. a study that paired it with semiglutide at very low doses looked interesting, and at 3mg it showed very little muscle loss. so far i havent located any pill source that has it in stock. at that dose the cost is ridiculously cheap, but splitting 25mg pills down to 3mg is going to be a pain. would you be willing to share what dose you are using?

During the initial 2 weeks, the dose was 12.5mg each day. By week 3, I bumped it up to 25 mg per day. At 12.5, SHBG dropped a lot and my freeT ended up three times higher. Each capsule contains 12.5 mg. Umbrella Labs is where I source it. My Enclo also comes from there.

 

[Tbagger]

igottapee said:

Tbagger said:

latviantower said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

The first thing that jumped out at me from your labs is how absurd it is that the medical “authorities” still can't settle on a definition of “normal.” My sample was drawn at Quest, though Goodlabs handled the ordering and reporting. Turns out Goodlabs uses two tiers of normal - “low normal” (yellow) and “normal normal” (green). My total T came back at 453, and as you can see, that still doesn't reach the green. On top of that, Goodlabs flips to red at 1000, while Quest does it at 1100. At Goodlabs, someone with low T like you would be deep in the red - their cutoff for low is anything under 300. So yeah, it's a mess in my view.

My PCP refused to even order hormone labs, which means I'm figuring this out solo. I'm not about to go to Limitless Male or similar clinics and get gouged (my insurance is terrible). Ordering my own labs and remedies seems like the smarter path. Online communities (NON-Meso folks) are fantastic resources. Soooo….here's my stack: 175 mg test c per week (25 mg every morning, subq for gradual, steady uptake and reduced aromatization risk), 2 iu hgh before sleep, and 5 mg reta to offset the IGF bump from the hgh. That's my peptide holy trinity. Labs every 8 weeks, no exceptions.

Good luck Gr33dy! Btw, I get a kick out of your posts. I never saw the rant that apparently pushed the mods over the edge and landed you in the penalty box. I figure Zippity gets his laughs from strange places - autocorrect algorithms (Fuck Rocks) and probation status being just two examples? (as a McGill grad BSc’82, I can only assume he went to Concordia. Twisted sense of humor there.)

Lately I keep noticing a pattern: physicians won't even authorize basic testing like labs. If my PCP shot me down when I wanted to investigate something, I'd walk out the door and get myself onto a waiting list at another clinic before you knew it. With my doctor, I'm direct — I tell her straight up that I'm a grown ass man, and I'm not there to seek approval or plead for anything. I've been open about the peptides I've looked into, and she's aware I've got the resourcefulness to source any peptide or pharmaceutical that's ever been produced. So she's pretty cool and will give me guidance and tell me whether my insurance will pick up whatever I'm requesting, but the call is mine if I'm willing to foot the bill. Obviously there are limits — I can't just stroll in and demand opiates or something like that. But turning down a hormone panel is simply bizarre and comes off as sketchy.

Whether your insurance covers it, and what portions they do or don't pay for, is what determines everything.

That's exactly my point. Whether insurance picks it up or I end up paying myself, she said she'll tell me — but the choice is up to me.

 

[RubbaDubba1]

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

Yeah, the post you linked shows my Estradiol peaked at 161. Getting that back to a normal level took a year. After surgery I was pinning 2x per week, and later moved to 1x per week. These days I take CJC/Ipamorelin at 100mcg each plus IGF-1 LR3 at 20mcg, running 5on/2off — and that advice came from you, so thanks Following the Dr,s orders, I truly did nothing for 11 days once this shoulder surgery happened, and cabin fever set in. PT has just begun and my post-op was yesterday; the sling stays on for 8 weeks. I haven't lost it (so far), but in 6-8 weeks I want a full panel done to confirm all these peps and supplements haven't thrown anything too far off.

Bro, you're light years ahead of me — my goals are mowing the lawn, walking the dog, reaching retirement, and still standing upright.

 

[Volkswagen57]

Airborne Daddy said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

Because you're crazy and we're friends, I'll tell you who I get my domestic oils from.... Primalpharma.org ..... he's on tiktok so I don't think it's a security breach....

On meso, feedback for Primal pharma isn't very positive, so I decided against buying their stuff for that reason. @Airborne Daddy Actually, I notice you're posting in a thread discussing Primal pharma's quality—not trying to criticize you, just wondering why you'd still suggest them after those reviews? Have you sent the vials you bought to Jano for testing? Based on what I've seen, their product seems underdosed. If I'm mistaken, let me know

 

[swimmer]

RubbaDubba1 said:

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

Yeah, the post you linked shows my Estradiol peaked at 161. Getting that back to a normal level took a year. After surgery I was pinning 2x per week, and later moved to 1x per week. These days I take CJC/Ipamorelin at 100mcg each plus IGF-1 LR3 at 20mcg, running 5on/2off — and that advice came from you, so thanks Following the Dr,s orders, I truly did nothing for 11 days once this shoulder surgery happened, and cabin fever set in. PT has just begun and my post-op was yesterday; the sling stays on for 8 weeks. I haven't lost it (so far), but in 6-8 weeks I want a full panel done to confirm all these peps and supplements haven't thrown anything too far off.

Bro, you're light years ahead of me — my goals are mowing the lawn, walking the dog, reaching retirement, and still standing upright.

Wishing you a smooth and speedy recovery!! The growth hormone secretagogues ought to be beneficial.

 

[RubbaDubba1]

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

swimmer said:

RubbaDubba1 said:

As Turbo-Farmer mentioned, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr orders it via Pure Pharmacy. It does the job pretty well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That supply lasts me more than a year, taking 25mg daily moved me from 690 to 1500++ within 3 months and multiplied my Estradiol by 4, just so you know. I only began again following a 6 month pause from it, now doing 2X per week for 90 days after my surgery. I'll get checked at that point and tweak it, not something I require but good to have.

For 4 months I've been taking 12.5 mg of enclomiphene, and the results have been excellent. One thing to watch out for: it may push up estrogen and shbg while crushing your IGF-1.

At the start, my total T climbed from a baseline of 600 to over 1200. Even though I was training like crazy, gains stayed small until I introduced tessa/ipa, which lifted my IGF-1 to a bit above my original baseline. To bring estrogen down, I used a very small dose of anastrozole every other day. I felt fantastic and made solid progress in the gym.

Then, because I wanted even more gains, I began an osterine cycle. Wow, what a difference. 2 weeks into the ostarine cycle, my total T had dropped back to 600, but my shbg went from extremely high to very low, which made my free T triple!! I'm nearly done with the 8 week Osterine cycle, and my gains have far exceeded my expectations. Almost every day, people come up to me asking what I'm doing to look this way at my age (63). They assume it's full-blown AAS.

Yeah, the post you linked shows my Estradiol peaked at 161. Getting that back to a normal level took a year. After surgery I was pinning 2x per week, and later moved to 1x per week. These days I take CJC/Ipamorelin at 100mcg each plus IGF-1 LR3 at 20mcg, running 5on/2off — and that advice came from you, so thanks Following the Dr,s orders, I truly did nothing for 11 days once this shoulder surgery happened, and cabin fever set in. PT has just begun and my post-op was yesterday; the sling stays on for 8 weeks. I haven't lost it (so far), but in 6-8 weeks I want a full panel done to confirm all these peps and supplements haven't thrown anything too far off.

Bro, you're light years ahead of me — my goals are mowing the lawn, walking the dog, reaching retirement, and still standing upright.

Wishing you a smooth and speedy recovery!! The growth hormone secretagogues ought to be beneficial.

Thanks — truth is, I'll have to go through the same thing again next year. Should this turn out okay, I'll do the other shoulder the same way, and with any luck get this elbow and wrist sorted too. My hope is to return to work sooner rather than later, because living on 60% of a paycheck Sux. On the bright side, at least I'm not behind the wheel of anything at the moment, ha!

 

[Airborne Daddy]

Volkswagen57 said:

Airborne Daddy said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

Because you're crazy and we're friends, I'll tell you who I get my domestic oils from.... Primalpharma.org ..... he's on tiktok so I don't think it's a security breach....

On meso, feedback for Primal pharma isn't very positive, so I decided against buying their stuff for that reason. @Airborne Daddy Actually, I notice you're posting in a thread discussing Primal pharma's quality—not trying to criticize you, just wondering why you'd still suggest them after those reviews? Have you sent the vials you bought to Jano for testing? Based on what I've seen, their product seems underdosed. If I'm mistaken, let me know

People dislike him because he passed off Chinese primo as his own product.... when 3 of us each send a vial of test cyp 200 for testing and the results come back 204, 195 and 188, that spread falls inside 10% variation, which covers the usual 2 or 3% lab variance, so it's acceptable and matches what other domestic sources show.

His tren 400 was dosed high and might have gotten plastic contamination while brewing. He gave people money back and kept improving his lab. Newbies stuck a needle in their quad, ended up with welts and red lumps. They got refunds. Quads are extremely sensitive and I won't inject there, but that outcome can hit anyone whose technique isn't perfect.

He runs tests and posts results for all his raws and finished products, and he'll reimburse you or give credit if you want to test on your own. Every vendor in meso's history has problems, fans and critics. I stick with him because 3 different batches gave me no trouble and it works for me. I considered throwing some out when a few people reported issues with mct oil, but I opened a vial and it was fine for me. Keep in mind, if 6 people run into a problem, 2 or 300 don't.... Finally, I passed a source along to someone I know because he's searching and I use that source. My post wasn't advertising for everybody. I gain nothing and don't need to, given his prices, when I spend under 300 dollars a year.

So yeah, I reached a point where all the drama made me doubtful and I quit the thread. I'm at ease with the guy, had zero problems last year, am right now using at trt dose and will be using the mast, tren and test I have on hand for summer. Plenty of positive reviews exist, not counting guys who are satisfied but stay quiet on a steroid forum. To me it's a small number of non fans because he got caught in lies.... some don't mind since we hold no expectations from a drug dealer. Even Stanford had problems and he's been around years and years... now with a hefty minimum order.

 

[Volkswagen57]

Airborne Daddy said:

Volkswagen57 said:

Airborne Daddy said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

Because you're crazy and we're friends, I'll tell you who I get my domestic oils from.... Primalpharma.org ..... he's on tiktok so I don't think it's a security breach....

On meso, feedback for Primal pharma isn't very positive, so I decided against buying their stuff for that reason. @Airborne Daddy Actually, I notice you're posting in a thread discussing Primal pharma's quality—not trying to criticize you, just wondering why you'd still suggest them after those reviews? Have you sent the vials you bought to Jano for testing? Based on what I've seen, their product seems underdosed. If I'm mistaken, let me know

People dislike him because he passed off Chinese primo as his own product.... when 3 of us each send a vial of test cyp 200 for testing and the results come back 204, 195 and 188, that spread falls inside 10% variation, which covers the usual 2 or 3% lab variance, so it's acceptable and matches what other domestic sources show.

His tren 400 was dosed high and might have gotten plastic contamination while brewing. He gave people money back and kept improving his lab. Newbies stuck a needle in their quad, ended up with welts and red lumps. They got refunds. Quads are extremely sensitive and I won't inject there, but that outcome can hit anyone whose technique isn't perfect.

He runs tests and posts results for all his raws and finished products, and he'll reimburse you or give credit if you want to test on your own. Every vendor in meso's history has problems, fans and critics. I stick with him because 3 different batches gave me no trouble and it works for me. I considered throwing some out when a few people reported issues with mct oil, but I opened a vial and it was fine for me. Keep in mind, if 6 people run into a problem, 2 or 300 don't.... Finally, I passed a source along to someone I know because he's searching and I use that source. My post wasn't advertising for everybody. I gain nothing and don't need to, given his prices, when I spend under 300 dollars a year.

So yeah, I reached a point where all the drama made me doubtful and I quit the thread. I'm at ease with the guy, had zero problems last year, am right now using at trt dose and will be using the mast, tren and test I have on hand for summer. Plenty of positive reviews exist, not counting guys who are satisfied but stay quiet on a steroid forum. To me it's a small number of non fans because he got caught in lies.... some don't mind since we hold no expectations from a drug dealer. Even Stanford had problems and he's been around years and years... now with a hefty minimum order.

Thanks for getting back to me. I only went through 2 pages or so of that thread. Solid info. Maybe I'll try his product. My previous order came from Sha on the SST forum. I picked up enough tests to cover more than a year. Still, NPP and primo have caught my interest

 

[mraajr]

Volkswagen57 said:

Airborne Daddy said:

Gr33dyOctopus said:

There's already a Testosterone discussion elsewhere, but mine is a personal situation, and on top of that probation limits me to roughly 1 post each hour, so this one has to really matter!

Dammit!!! The brain fog, constant tiredness, dragging myself through days with no energy and no libido. I figured it was simply because I was fat. As of today I'm officially down 101.5 pounds and I still feel every bit of that.

My diet is whole foods and proteins, I mostly avoid unnatural sugars, and I do stretching plus weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Also 7 to 12k steps every weekday by 330pm.

My muscles feel hard as blocks of wood, yet they aren't growing, I'm yawning while trying to lead these exercise classes, and by noon I want a nap. I'm only 51yo? I had started to believe this was just normal?

After bloodwork came back spectacular, going from prediabetic to no longer prediabetic, and triglycerides that had been off the charts dropping to normal levels, I got worried that my energy and libido were still in the dirt, so I specifically requested a testosterone test. It came back really really low, which explains SO MUCH. Then I get a note from my dr saying I am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

Because you're crazy and we're friends, I'll tell you who I get my domestic oils from.... Primalpharma.org ..... he's on tiktok so I don't think it's a security breach....

On meso, feedback for Primal pharma isn't very positive, so I decided against buying their stuff for that reason. @Airborne Daddy Actually, I notice you're posting in a thread discussing Primal pharma's quality—not trying to criticize you, just wondering why you'd still suggest them after those reviews? Have you sent the vials you bought to Jano for testing? Based on what I've seen, their product seems underdosed. If I'm mistaken, let me know

For the most part, Primal is solid. You rarely come across a batch from them that's underdosed. There was one EQ vial not long ago, though every EQ batch after that has come back clean on tests. A lot of the criticism stems from the CN Primo they passed off as Domestic and denied it until they got caught. Working with them is a breeze. Delivery is lightning quick. If TRT is your only use for them, their Test, E, C, and P are all dialed in.

Over there, the people shouting the loudest hardly ever mention the 98% of tests that come back good. In my view, 2% isn't terrible for the UGL scene, and the guy will always fix things if there's a problem. On my 2nd order with them, the tracking sat still for 7 days, and all I did was inquire about it (no complaining or angling for anything) and he turned around and reshipped it right away, saying if the first one turns up, no biggie. Both arrived a few days later.