Legal Liability to Group Buy Organizers / TG Resellers when someone gets sick

greenwave1015

greenwave1015

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Question somewhat related to the Peptide Jail Time threads, but focused more on the legal risk to resellers and Group Promotion Vendors when a buyer does something reckless and then decides to sue everyone involved.



Has anyone seen a case where someone became sick after injecting a product bought from a vendor, reseller, or group buy? For example, suppose a product tests at something extreme like 45,000 EU of endotoxin. The buyer is fully warned, buys it at a discount anyway, injects it, and ends up hospitalized.



Wondering what stops a disgruntled buyer from deciding to sue everyone in the supply chain, including the vendor, reseller, and Group Promotion Vendor, even in a scenario where they knowingly created the risk themselves?

And how would that play out.



I personally haven't heard any cases like this, but also surprised this doesn't happen more often (i.e., thinking of the TikTok crowd).

Thanks!
 
greenwave1015 said:


Question somewhat related to the Peptide Jail Time threads, but focused more on the legal risk to resellers and Group Promotion Vendors when a buyer does something reckless and then decides to sue everyone involved.



Has anyone seen a case where someone became sick after injecting a product bought from a vendor, reseller, or group buy? For example, suppose a product tests at something extreme like 45,000 EU of endotoxin. The buyer is fully warned, buys it at a discount anyway, injects it, and ends up hospitalized.



Wondering what stops a disgruntled buyer from deciding to sue everyone in the supply chain, including the vendor, reseller, and Group Promotion Vendor, even in a scenario where they knowingly created the risk themselves?

And how would that play out.



I personally haven't heard any cases like this, but also surprised this doesn't happen more often (i.e., thinking of the TikTok crowd).

Thanks!

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They are being sold under research use only, not to be injected by people or animals. So no
 
CNCCurrency said:


They are being sold under research use only, not to be injected by people or animals. So no

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Plus, 99% of the time they have something you need to sign to take them off the hook.
 
Most importantly there has to be assets that are both significant enough to be worth the expense of litigation and actually collectable. You may be able to find a Group Promotion Vendor to sue, but it is very unlikely they would even have the assets to cover the cost of winning a verdict let alone leave anything to actually collect. A larger vendor may have assets, but getting them from China would likely be impossible.
 
BNLFL said:


Plus, 99% of the time they have something you need to sign to take them off the hook.

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First acceptance agreement is acknowledging your purchase is not intended for human use and you agree never to consider such absurdities.
 
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5byfive said:


Most importantly there has to be assets that are both significant enough to be worth the expense of litigation and actually collectable. You may be able to find a Group Promotion Vendor to sue, but it is very unlikely they would even have the assets to cover the cost of winning a verdict let alone leave anything to actually collect. A larger vendor may have assets, but getting them from China would likely be impossible.

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what do you call an aspiring peptide vendor without any money for inventory?

a group buy operator.
 
So the chain upwards is blocked by the great wall of china and the Group Promotion Vendor, as mentioned is indemnified.

I am not an attorney, but having skydived and signed such waivers there is further protection in assuming risk. you knowingly injected mystery chinese powder and now want to sue?

A skydiver actually can sue a pilot if the pilot’s negligence or active wrongdoing causes an injury or crash. However, suing is often very hard because skydivers sign broad liability waivers, and the law protects companies and staff through the legal concept of assuming inherent risks
 
Look at it this way: If the guy at the corner of Main and Walnut Streets (whose real name and address you don't know) sells you bad meth and you get sick, who are you going to hold legally liable?
 
exploitedworkerbee said:


l

ldn't

what do you call an aspiring peptide vendor without any money for inventory?

a group buy operator.

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I am genuinely interested in this perspective. I mean, a lot of people hate on Group Promotion Vendors as people who insert themselves into the supply chain to skim some of the top, while not contributing much. I know @ZippityDooDah has expressed his views many times, and he resents them with a passion. Sorry for that mention zippity, but would love to hear you rant a bit more.

Leaving out the outright frauds and scams, these guys are doing quite a bit, are they not? And they do add some value.

  1. You wouldn't get the prices that you get through Group Promotion Vendors. I guess their value here is the knowledge of the market and vendors, and being able to negotiate with them.
  2. Getting testing done (hopefully statistically valid). Done right, this can be an optimization, without having to test the same batch by end users too many times.
  3. They do take care of issues to a certain extent. But if the vendor bails, you are on your own. But that is no worse than if you bought directly from the vendor.
  4. Because of the way this is structured, they do end up doing a lot of work. Just the logistics are pretty extensive.
My question is - do people really think of Group Promotion Vendors as mostly scams and deadweight? I mean, as a end user, you are getting something out of it.
 
tcpnomad said:


I am genuinely interested in this perspective. I mean, a lot of people hate on Group Promotion Vendors as people who insert themselves into the supply chain to skim some of the top, while not contributing much. I know @ZippityDooDah has expressed his views many times, and he resents them with a passion. Sorry for that mention zippity, but would love to hear you rant a bit more.

Leaving out the outright frauds and scams, these guys are doing quite a bit, are they not? And they do add some value.

  1. You wouldn't get the prices that you get through Group Promotion Vendors. I guess their value here is the knowledge of the market and vendors, and being able to negotiate with them.
  2. Getting testing done (hopefully statistically valid). Done right, this can be an optimization, without having to test the same batch by end users too many times.
  3. They do take care of issues to a certain extent. But if the vendor bails, you are on your own. But that is no worse than if you bought directly from the vendor.
  4. Because of the way this is structured, they do end up doing a lot of work. Just the logistics are pretty extensive.
My question is - do people really think of Group Promotion Vendors as mostly scams and deadweight? I mean, as a end user, you are getting something out of it.

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I don't resent the concept, I resent that so many have bastardized it and are completely untrustworthy and opaque.

If the people running the "buy" aren't transparently publishing an account of every penny in and out, and every communication with their supplier and testing lab, then it is not a group buy—it's a vendor running a promotion.

A vast majority of these group vendors end up folding under the pressure of a bad deal, fail to issue promised refunds, don't have the clout to get their supplier to honor guarantees, spin tales of woe blaming everything from their grandmother dying for the 11th time, a convenient medical emergency or other personal crisis, problems moving funds around to be able to process refunds, or countless other bullshit lies and excuses to deflect blame and responsibility.

This doesn't even touch upon the long and sordid history of these vendors (or their "assistants", "helpers", whatever other fake title they assign their business partners) doxxing customers, banning paid customers for raising the slightest question that they don't like (almost always without a refund), dictating the terms and manipulating the testing to ensure positive results, and on and on.

So-called "group buys" are designed to attract suckers who are easily blinded by the idea of a bargain, and who get artificial comfort from the idea that their products are "tested". The handful of honest, legitimate "group buys" out there are never going to be publicly discussed and are invite-only.

Don't be a sucker.
 
ZippityDooDah said:


So-called "group buys" are designed to attract suckers who are easily blinded by the idea of a bargain

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Then, you suggest buying directly, and doing your own testing (in a test group, maybe)? Is there a way to get similar prices though? What is a good buying strategy then?

ZippityDooDah said:


artificial comfort from the idea that their products are "tested"

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So, you think that testing these Group Promotion Vendors do is useless? How so? I know you are a busy man, but this would be useful information.

ZippityDooDah said:


The handful of honest, legitimate "group buys" out there are never going to be publicly discussed and are invite-only.

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Come on man. Help your flock out. Give us some names.

BTW - is the "no source discussion" rule only for newbies or the rest of members too? Do you mind my asking why such a valuable are of discussion is discouraged so heavily? I am sure, in your mind, this has been asked and answered. But I still don't quite get it. Well, if you feel like talking about it, I am all ears.
 
tcpnomad said:


Then, you suggest buying directly, and doing your own testing (in a test group, maybe)? Is there a way to get similar prices though? What is a good buying strategy then?

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Stop prioritizing price over everything else.

The prices today are a fraction of what they were when I got started in this, and testing is more widely available than ever. A 1-year supply of GLP-1's can be had for under $100/year up to around $300/year just by purchasing direct from any of the countless Chinese suppliers. Most testing groups attract enough participants that the average cost is under $30 per person. So for ~$330, you get a year's worth of product that you've had tested completely detached from whomever sold you the product (or "organized" the purchase). If saving another 10 to 20 percent over that is more important, every supplier will give price breaks on larger quantities.

tcpnomad said:


So, you think that testing these Group Promotion Vendors do is useless? How so? I know you are a busy man, but this would be useful information.

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If the testing is at all coordinated or paid for by the "organizer", absolutely useless. It's too easy for them to manipulate the results.

tcpnomad said:


Come on man. Help your flock out. Give us some names.

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The reason nobody shares the names is because there is always that one someone, somewhere, who can't keep their big dirty mouth shut and ruins it for everyone else. 80% of the peptide buying public is better off buying direct from China, 15% from domestic vendors, 4% should stick to licensed pharmacies, and the remaining 1% (which I am not in BTW; I haven't participated in a "group buy/promotion" since late 2023) via private groups.

tcpnomad said:


BTW - is the "no source discussion" rule only for newbies or the rest of members too? Do you mind my asking why such a valuable are of discussion is discouraged so heavily? I am sure, in your mind, this has been asked and answered. But I still don't quite get it. Well, if you feel like talking about it, I am all ears.

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This is clearly laid out in the rules. No source discussion applies to anyone below the "GLP-1 Apprentice" user level, and users who have achieved that level are expected to follow the rule that source discussion only is allowed in the Research Chemicals and Sourcing section of the forum.
 
I still dance around source discussion even though i know its fine. Lmao im in so many groups i forget which im good in. Think meso is the only one left i cant 🤣
 
For American resellers, I assume criminal and civil liability if selling to a minor who is harmed. In theory, felony murder charges could apply (like if the minor had type-1 diabetes and died from hypoglycemia).

The problem is having to prove that the same vial that was mailed was the one that caused harm.
 
Calm Logic said:


For American resellers, I assume criminal and civil liability if selling to a minor who is harmed. In theory, felony murder charges could apply (like if the minor had type-1 diabetes and died from hypoglycemia).

The problem is having to prove that the same vial that was mailed was the one that caused harm.

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You think it only applies to minors? I think it would apply to any person that died, would it not?
 
ZippityDooDah said:


Look at it this way: If the guy at the corner of Main and Walnut Streets (whose real name and address you don't know) sells you bad meth and you get sick, who are you going to hold legally liable?

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The guy on the corner, and his dealer!

Whether it's wise to sue them (i.e., they might be broke on paper, you might get shot in the head, etc.) is probably a different matter - but what actually stops someone from suing (or attempting to sue) everyone / anyone involved, if they really wanted to?

People sue all the time for dumb shit, like this: https://www.reuters.com/article/wor...putting-too-much-ice-in-drinks-idUSKCN0XT1V3/
 
ZippityDooDah said:


If the people running the "buy" aren't transparently publishing an account of every penny in and out, and every communication with their supplier and testing lab, then it is not a group buy—it's a vendor running a promotion.

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Does this even still exist??

ZippityDooDah said:


The handful of honest, legitimate "group buys" out there are never going to be publicly discussed and are invite-only

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It's crazy to me that anyone would do this in a fully transparent way. Just seems like an entirely "for-profit" space to me.
 
greenwave1015 said:


but what actually stops someone from suing (or attempting to sue) everyone / anyone involved, if they really wanted to?

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How do you sue someone when you don't know their name or address?
 
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