INTRO Lost 60lbs and started a Testing Lab.

AlexU

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Greetings from Zagreb, Croatia, in the EU — the place where BPC-157 was created!

My peptide experience began several years ago, using compounds aimed at optimising energy levels. Then last year I chose to give Reta a go, hoping to shed fat and boost insulin sensitivity. Over roughly 5 months I dropped from 104kg (230 pounds) down to 78kg (172 pounds).

I paused for around 2 months since the appetite suppression had vanished entirely (I was at 5.5mg/w). Right now I'm weighing whether to begin again or switch to tirz for stronger suppression — we'll see.

Along the way a few unexpected findings came up, and they led me to where I am now.

Testing my products was always something I did. But after a lump appeared on my thigh and stayed for over a week, I grew somewhat paranoid and began researching analysis (I'm not a chemist or scientist). To my amazement, I discovered that some truly world-class peptide analysis experts were based in my own city — until then I'd assumed peptides were "a new thing". For the past 25yrs these people have been putting out research papers on peptides, patenting analytical methods, and doing deep work even with pre-ozempic GLP-1's like Liraglutide.

They urged me to let them test my vials (which had already been tested before: 99%+, sterility/endotoxin cleared). Of the first 3, one came back at 92% purity, while the other 2 were 97 and 98%.

How could that happen? Surprise, surprise (and this was quite a shock) — I hadn't realised that "Purity" as reported by Testing Labs isn't ACTUAL purity in the way an ordinary person with common sense would assume (for example, if my COA states 99.5% pure, then only 0.5% can be impure, correct? — nope.).

As I came to learn from scientists, in standard (HPLC-Uv) analysis the term Purity is a "Regulatory valid claim under the specific method when interpreting UV-area"

- in short, it isn't actual purity but rather whatever that method is able to see — and even more surprisingly, it doesn't see much, since the real figure could be 10,20,30% lower.

As it happens, it was fortunate I never used that one GLP. It was badly degraded and contained some not-so-great synthesis residue. According to my new friends at the time, going through the whole kit could have harmed my kidneys and hormones.

I felt played a fool. I'm still unsure how many people actually know this, and feel free to fact check me (i would) — I know what it sounds like.

As any AI, "is it possible if my peptide is tested at 99.5% purity that it actually has 10% impurities (under MS) amongst which hazardous synthesis residue, degradation, elevated hydrolysis levels, salts, variants ,etc?".

I think its important to know this.

Anyways, this was the reason i decides to partner up and start a Lab with proper tests that benefit the actual compound user since (not the vendors who get to display their 99.X% numbers and not Labs that can do quick tests with 10x cheaper equipment) - people rely on these numbers and not everybody has LCMS expert scientists in their city.

Thats my story for now, I was surprised to see how vibrant this forum is (new people joining every day and members welcoming them truly), i am happy to be here i think there's a lot i can share and even more i can learn.
 
That's really fascinating! Did they happen to say what that "synthesis residue" consisted of? You also note that the peptide had degraded significantly. Any idea how much time elapsed from when it was manufactured to when it was tested? And the 3 vials you sent for testing — were they still in lyophilized form, or had you already reconstituted them?

Glad to have you here on the forum!
 
Dos-Dox said:

That's really fascinating! Did they happen to say what that "synthesis residue" consisted of? You also note that the peptide had degraded significantly. Any idea how much time elapsed from when it was manufactured to when it was tested? And the 3 vials you sent for testing — were they still in lyophilized form, or had you already reconstituted them?

Glad to have you here on the forum!

The substance was tbu. Since these peptides came from the grey-market, there's no way to determine how much time went by - however, that isn't necessary for degradation to occur. And yes, all 3 vials were lyophilized.

Thanks!
 
That's really intriguing — I'd love to learn what you have in store for the lab and the testing side of things going forward. Please keep us in the loop.
 
This is something I'd like to learn more about too. My big concern: suppose a batch comes back at 99.5% pure — what tells me the remaining 0.5% isn't some bizarre compound that's extremely toxic or something along those lines?
 
This definitely has my attention — I'd love to hear more about how things have gone for you.

Thanks for putting this out there.

Could you go into more detail about what you're researching right now, and what the process looks like for getting a lab off the ground? Where does someone even start with that?
 
SpiralJetty said:

This is something I'd like to learn more about too. My big concern: suppose a batch comes back at 99.5% pure — what tells me the remaining 0.5% isn't some bizarre compound that's extremely toxic or something along those lines?
Why aren't you concerned that it might not be 99.5% at all?

Here's the thing: unless MS was used to quantify impurities (and in this case it wasn't), that figure is just a reading of the visible Main Peak area.

Try asking gemini or any ai (just paste this in):

"My COA lists my peptide's purity at 99.5% (Standard HPLC-Uv test). Could it really be 90% with 5-10% impurities, including things like:

1. Elevated amounts of hazardous Process impurities

2. Or elevated amounts of dangerous Preservatives;

3. Or elevated amounts of degradation and variants?"
 
Anatomy said:

This definitely has my attention — I'd love to hear more about how things have gone for you.

Thanks for putting this out there.

Could you go into more detail about what you're researching right now, and what the process looks like for getting a lab off the ground? Where does someone even start with that?

There's some interesting work happening at the lab right now — one example being the development of a high-accuracy analysis model for Batch Fingerprinting, which is meant to confirm with high probability that 2 or more peptide vials came out of the same production batch.

As for launching a lab, the reality is that it takes a lot of capital, unfortunately. Standard machines cost less — HPLC-Uv equipment, for instance, runs about 50k (which is also part of why those tests are so common) — whereas proper LCMS equipment will cost you roughly 500k and demands a far more skilled technician, because errors tend to be expensive.

Still, I believe a big part of our value now will come from untangling the basic "misunderstandings" around impurities and purity numbers (things like 99.X% COAs), since in a grey-market it's very risky to trust data blindly when you don't know what it actually means.
 
You shed some helpful perspective on this, honestly I only grasped a bit of it but I would really like to hear more, and I would love to see what you think about reta
 
AlexU said:


At the lab we are doing some interesting stuff, we are for example refining a high-accuracy analysis model for Batch Fingerprinting (in order to confirm with high probability 2 or more peptide vials are from the same production batch).

Regarding starting a lab you should know it is capital intensive unfortunately, Standard machines are cheaper, for example you can get HPLC-Uv equipment for about 50k (also a factor why these tests are popular), but proper LCMS equipment will set you back around 500k and requires much higher technician competence since mistakes can be quite costly.

But i think now much of our value will be in clearing up basic "misunderstandings" regarding impurities, purity numbers (like 99.X% COAs) since in a grey-market its very risky relying blindly on data if one is unaware of what it actually means.

Click to expand...

Got it, that clears things up — appreciate it.

Really clever approach, by the way.

I had zero awareness that impurities could exist at that scale until your post brought it up
 
AlexU said:


How come you are not worried of it not being 99.5% at all?

The point is if it wasn't tested by MS for impurities quantification (it wasn't) that number is an interpretation of the observable Main Peak area.

Ask gemini or any ai (paste this):

"My COA says my peptide's purity is 99.5% (Standard HPLC-Uv test). Is it possible it's actually 90% and has 5-10% impurities, even for example:

1. High levels of hazardous Process impurities

2. Or high levels of dangerous Preservatives;

3. Or high levels of degradation and variants?"

Click to expand...
Greetings to the forum, I'm also new here.

In your research, have you truly observed 1 and 2?
 
Hey Alex, I'm employed at a US-based lab and I'd like to talk about techniques, particularly established purity standards. Our equipment includes UHPLC, LCMSMS, GC/MS, and more.
 
Wallydog said:


Welcome to the forum from another newbie.

Have you actually seen 1 and 2 in your research?

Click to expand...
yeah, TFA, fmoc, parabens, though hydrolysis / cleavage at levels even beyond the norm is still quite undesirable
 
dustball3000 said:

Hey Alex, I'm employed at a US-based lab and I'd like to talk about techniques, particularly established purity standards. Our equipment includes UHPLC, LCMSMS, GC/MS, and more.
Hi there, that's really neat — the science side is handled by my partners, though I try to keep them involved, so I'm happy to have these conversations and purity controls are a big interest of mine! I imagine that with the right ranges and resolutions, we might be able to run the same tests again 🙂
 
I'm certainly curious to learn more regarding the lab testing you do. So far I've had 2 third-party lab tests done, though I'm constantly on the lookout for improved testing options for everything stored in my freezer.
 
SpiralJetty said:

This is something I'd like to learn more about too. My big concern: suppose a batch comes back at 99.5% pure — what tells me the remaining 0.5% isn't some bizarre compound that's extremely toxic or something along those lines?
it's honestly a bit amusing that we occasionally overlook that tiny 0.5% lol we should be more cautious
 
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