eidos said:
Shittersfull said:
Shittersfull said:
davefromfv said:
Shittersfull said:
I'm curious whether anyone has ended up feeling ill. There's a lot of discussion about endotoxins. And a number of people skip filtering. What symptoms would show up? How much time passes before they appear? If someone does get sick, what steps should they take? Has anyone become ill despite filtering?
Endotoxins aren't affected by filtering in any way. It only helps with sterility.
That's news to me, thanks.
This keeps crossing my mind... In group buys, a fair number of folks appear indifferent to endotoxins. I had been under the impression that filtering took care of them. So if filters don't actually clear endotoxins, and they're capable of making you ill, why aren't more people concerned?
Story time, it seems — today is apparently one of those days when I tell stories.
A close friend of mine, right after finishing her bachelor's in biochemistry, got an internship at a private lab — a serious one, in fact; today it's the global leader in its niche.
A few weeks into her internship, we got together with some friends. She was livid about her supervisor. “While he was walking me through the labs, he told me, ‘It’s more or less sterile.’ Either it's sterile or it isn't! What an incompetent!”
We glanced at one another and cracked up. Then we tried to walk her through what I'm about to walk you through.
Sterility and endotoxin levels can only be measured from a certain threshold onward — the detection limit, below which nothing can be detected. Look at the COAs you find online; when an endotoxin analysis is part of it and the result is very good, you'll see something like <5 units.
There's also a ceiling above which things turn dangerous or toxic. A good result has to sit under that ceiling. And that ceiling is never zero; it's not all-or-nothing. Nor is it the level that kills you; there's always some margin.
For endotoxins, this is expressed in hours and kilograms of body weight. Simply because our body has what it takes to clear them, as long as there aren't too many at once. When endos are too numerous, a whole set of other immune reactions kicks in, and it can turn serious.
You may see people splitting the dose into two weekly doses. Usually that's not about endotoxins, but it does have one advantage: if any were present, it would lessen the reactions.
Oddly enough, Paracelsus's saying still holds true: everything is poison, nothing is without poison; it is the dose that makes the poison.
It all comes down to the probability of contamination. That’s what good manufacturing practices in the factory are for, as well as proper packaging for transport. Finally, there are our aseptic practices when preparing and injecting the peptides.
Pharmaceutical companies and pharmacies have rules and oversight procedures, that we don't have access to, to manage the process.
And when we're alone in the middle of all this, we don't understand anything and we may feel like we have no control. It's legitimate to think that way because that's the reality.
And that's when collective intelligence comes into play. Yes, just like bees and ants.
There is a community that shares information, knowledge, and understandings on these topics (and sometimes a little wisdom, because there are a lot of "old people"* here). It’s important to realize that the number of peptide users on this forum is 10 to 100 times greater than any clinical trials, and that we have information that has never been collected in those studies.
This gives us an overview of what's going on. And above all, there are a few resource person, like Peter Magic, the founder of the Janoshik lab, who sees the test results for every batch on the market (and I think the same batches are tested dozens of times by different customers).
In interviews from previous years, he said that in ten years he had seen only two cases with serious problems. He concluded that there was no point in testing for endotoxins.
A few weeks ago, he changed his policy. Not just for marketing reason, since he has enough work, but because batches with high endotoxin levels and sterility issues have appeared on the market.
He cannot reveal the sources of these products because he has a contract with his clients. But what he implies is that this applies only to certain sources: it is not a proportion of the batches from all sellers, but rather certain (new?) unscrupulous sellers.
So if you follow the reviews of each seller on this forum and the Telegram groups where COAs are shared (no DMs, please), and if you choose a seller located as close to the factory as possible and with a fairly large team, you’ll end up finding your preferred seller (it took me 3 weeks on this forum). Just don't buy at a trailer park or the gym, or from someone who contacts you directly. Good vendors don't have time for that and call you "dear."
If, after this (short) text, you aren't at least a little reassured and still don't know what to do, then grey isn't for you.
"Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened." Groucho Marx
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