GLPs, Your Gallbladder, And You – Birdwhacker's Guide to Busting Organ Failure

[lessthanhalf]

birdwhacker said:

Lear00 said:

I've come across your posts previously. Have any blood panels been run, LFTs among them? What about ultrasound imaging? There's a great deal of theorizing in this thread, but I'd be interested in hearing some objective data.

I'm fairly certain that the opening paragraphs already address this matter in detail.

I've set aside money for bloodwork and will get whatever tests I can next month. Apart from bilirubin and liver enzymes, is there anything else you'd recommend? As far as I understand, those would make up a liver function test.

If I had any scans or imaging available, I clearly wouldn't be sitting here going on about "theory." Also, the point of this post is prevention, not a diary of my personal day-to-day symptoms. Plenty more than theory is going on with my body at this moment, and there's no shortage of evidence pointing to the gallbladder. Just like heart attacks, symptoms vary enormously across genders, age brackets, and risk factors.

I've heard from a reliable source that my liver showed some marbling back in 2021. Sadly, I couldn't get follow-up care then for the same reasons I can't get it now. Unless I obtain health insurance or the pain turns debilitating, I'm stuck handling this by myself. Eventually I'll have it looked at, and see a cardiologist. But that won't happen before Q2 of next year at the earliest.

For several years I worked at a market alongside a guy I knew. At one point he brought up some chest pain he'd been having lately. Going by how he described it, I couldn't call it conclusive, but it was suspicious enough that it needed to be looked into and handled as cardiac until something proved otherwise. So the next time it hit him, he did head to the emergency department, where they weren't certain either and scheduled him for a stress test the following week. After that I didn't see him for a few months, because the heart attack that had been looming struck before the stress test ever happened, and he ended up needing bypasses. He came through it fine, but had he gone to the emergency department that first time, things might have been sorted out before the heart attack instead of after it.

Why you'd need to see a cardiologist, I have no clue, but sometimes waiting turns into a move you can't undo. The way the health system in the US operates is terrible, with cost deciding whether people get basic treatments or tests they need.

 

[Youarewhen]

What's the rush with dropping pounds so fast? Would it have hurt to pace yourself? Based on how many posts you've made and when you signed up, I've got a pretty good idea what's going on. Was your starting dose 12mg weekly?

 

[birdwhacker]

lessthanhalf said:


...but waiting can sometimes be an irreversible move. The way the health system works in the US sucks, that costs determine basic needed treatments or tests.

Click to expand...

I get it. Luckily my heart's in decent shape, so I've got a grip on the situation. And no, I have zero problem heading to a hospital — I'll admit myself to the ER over the smallest thing. If I thought it was needed, I'd go right away without thinking twice. It's not like the bill is my problem anyway.

Youarewhen said:

What's the rush with dropping pounds so fast? Would it have hurt to pace yourself? Based on how many posts you've made and when you signed up, I've got a pretty good idea what's going on. Was your starting dose 12mg weekly?

The reason is that something's off with me. I went in knowing the danger, but losing 3lbs weekly became a habit I couldn't stop. As far as I can tell, I'm still shedding 2.5lb per week. Right now I'm tapering the dose down and planning to switch from cardio over to lifting before long... whenever the money allows.

Youarewhen said:

What's the rush with dropping pounds so fast? Would it have hurt to pace yourself? Based on how many posts you've made and when you signed up, I've got a pretty good idea what's going on. Was your starting dose 12mg weekly?

Lol.

My starting dose was 0.5mg, and within the first week I pushed it up to 2mg. After that came 1 month at 2.33mg weekly (1mg every 3 days). Then during month 2 I raised it to 4.66mg per week (2mg every 3 days).

I held that dose for 8 weeks, and since then I've been stepping it down gradually. At this point I'm on 1.8mg every 4 days.

 

[Lear00]

birdwhacker said:

Lear00 said:

I've come across your posts previously. Have any blood panels been run, LFTs among them? What about ultrasound imaging? There's a great deal of theorizing in this thread, but I'd be interested in hearing some objective data.

I'm fairly certain that the opening paragraphs already address this matter in detail.

I've set aside money for bloodwork and will get whatever tests I can next month. Apart from bilirubin and liver enzymes, is there anything else you'd recommend? As far as I understand, those would make up a liver function test.

If I had any scans or imaging available, I clearly wouldn't be sitting here going on about "theory." Also, the point of this post is prevention, not a diary of my personal day-to-day symptoms. Plenty more than theory is going on with my body at this moment, and there's no shortage of evidence pointing to the gallbladder. Just like heart attacks, symptoms vary enormously across genders, age brackets, and risk factors.

I've heard from a reliable source that my liver showed some marbling back in 2021. Sadly, I couldn't get follow-up care then for the same reasons I can't get it now. Unless I obtain health insurance or the pain turns debilitating, I'm stuck handling this by myself. Eventually I'll have it looked at, and see a cardiologist. But that won't happen before Q2 of next year at the earliest.

Honestly, my take is this: given how far clinical medicine has come, you can get a pretty solid workup — and probably rule out biliary problems — with nothing more than a basic liver enzyme panel, bilirubin, and a RUQ US Sonography. Were those symptoms happening to me, I'd put getting that testing near the top of my list. Not just because you might land on a diagnosis, but because if the biliary explanation gets excluded, you may be looking at something else entirely that still needs investigating. Sure, around here we're all used to bumping up against the edges of what science can tell us, but I still think there's something a bit dangerous about the whole idea of managing this yourself, judging your own situation, and then using — and recommending to other people — treatments that have barely been studied and come with weak evidence. That holds even if we assume it really is gallstones. Cholelithiasis is two steps away from cholecystitis with septic shock.

I'll admit I'm lucky enough to live somewhere with good, cheap healthcare access. That said, some of those supplements — which may or may not actually be doing anything — can really add up in cost! Getting a proper assessment is worth the money.

 

[birdwhacker]

Lear00 said:


I know we deal with the limits of science here on the forum in general, but I still think the concept of self managing it on your own based on your own assessment, and utilising + then recommending others poorly studied treatments with weak evidence is a bit dangerous.

Click to expand...

I suppose we're all just going to have to accept that. Advising people on treatments that haven't been properly researched is basically our whole thing around here, and by now I've spelled out where I stand at least 3 times. Start your own thread and sing the praises of advanced clinical medicine until the end of time. I'll be over here doing my thing, and if it comes to it, I'll gladly come back and admit I was wrong, or my mom can post my last will and testament. Whatever happens, happens. I've been very clear that I'd rather put my money toward supplements than proper medical care, and I don't think I'm misleading anyone about that.

If you're curious how people have managed to deal with gallstones without going under the knife, that list is for you.

If you're curious how to get ahead of it preventively before it turns into a problem, since every GLP user is at risk and it's literally a box label warning, well, that list covers what to do and what not to do.

Go ahead and point and laugh if it turns out my liver is failing, because I'll definitely let you all know and update these threads with the matching information.

And obviously I don't appreciate you trying to discredit me either. The first 2 "poorly studied treatments with weak evidence" I bring up are medications that are used and studied for dissolving gallstones. Go ahead and bite me. I don't think anyone's going to mistake my post for educated medical advice.

 

[Lear00]

birdwhacker said:


...studied in the dissolution of gallstones.

Click to expand...

And you're certain of that because of... what, exactly?

birdwhacker said:


I don't think anyone's going to mistake my post for educated medical advice.

Click to expand...

That's your phrasing, not mine

As I already said, a pretty sensational post. Carry on, best of luck!

 

[birdwhacker]

Lear00 said:


Which you're sure you have based on the evidence of....

Click to expand...

My post's third line reads

"No, I haven't been diagnosed by a doctor. Unless you want to pay for the visit, go to another thread if this bothers you."

Kindly crawl back to Reddit and quit attempting to gotcha me.

Perhaps this thread suits you better: /community-link/thread/18850/

 

[Lear00]

birdwhacker said:


This thread might be more your speed: https://glp1forum.com/threads/birdwhacker-hate-thread.18850/

Click to expand...

Recognizing that about yourself is a solid start

 

[birdwhacker]

Lear00 said:


Self-insight is a good first step

Click to expand...

 

[QueenMuntha]

Lear00 said:

I've come across your posts previously. Have any blood panels been run, LFTs among them? What about ultrasound imaging? There's a great deal of theorizing in this thread, but I'd be interested in hearing some objective data.

So yes, my care team is pretty extensive: a Cardiologist, an Electrophysiologist (for AFib), a Nephrologist (Stage 3 CKD), a Rheumatologist (Gout), an Endocrinologist (Lipo Lipedema and Morbid Obesity), an Orthopedist (bilateral osteoarthritis), a Pulmonologist (Severe Obstructive Sleep Apnea), and a Gastroenterologist (Ileitis). Lately I've been through an endoscope, colonoscopy, cardiac cath, full body x-rays, mri, echo, nuclear stress test, plus other things. Blood work is done on a regular panel basis. Gall Bladder problems had never shown up at any point. That changed once I began Reta.

That said, every one of these conditions is a SYMPTOM tied to chronic inflammation, in my view, since each has gotten dramatically better after I started the GLP-1s, along with Klow plus extra KPV injections.

 

[birdwhacker]

QueenMuntha said:

Lear00 said:

I've come across your posts previously. Have any blood panels been run, LFTs among them? What about ultrasound imaging? There's a great deal of theorizing in this thread, but I'd be interested in hearing some objective data.

So yes, my care team is pretty extensive: a Cardiologist, an Electrophysiologist (for AFib), a Nephrologist (Stage 3 CKD), a Rheumatologist (Gout), an Endocrinologist (Lipo Lipedema and Morbid Obesity), an Orthopedist (bilateral osteoarthritis), a Pulmonologist (Severe Obstructive Sleep Apnea), and a Gastroenterologist (Ileitis). Lately I've been through an endoscope, colonoscopy, cardiac cath, full body x-rays, mri, echo, nuclear stress test, plus other things. Blood work is done on a regular panel basis. Gall Bladder problems had never shown up at any point. That changed once I began Reta.

That said, every one of these conditions is a SYMPTOM tied to chronic inflammation, in my view, since each has gotten dramatically better after I started the GLP-1s, along with Klow plus extra KPV injections.

Same lol. When you look up biliary colic on Google, my symptom comes up first

 

[QueenMuntha]

birdwhacker said:

QueenMuntha said:

Sema for 3 months, then Tirz for 8 months — that was my history before moving to Reta, and the reason for the change was that loss had become extremely slow.

4 weeks into Reta, with the dose raised to 6 mg, a pain appeared in my upper back, right between the shoulder blades. My first assumption was that I had simply slept in a bad position, but it did not take long to realize this was probably something more, likely referred gallbladder pain.

So I quit Reta and went back on Tirz. 2 weeks later the pain was gone, and it has not come back since. n=1

Wow, that's a lot. Thanks for passing this along.

Someone else's post mentioned their physician claiming that stopping the GLP might undo the gallbladder problems they were experiencing. I figured that was just another instance of doctors making things up. Now I'm starting to think there might be some truth in it.

As it stands, I'm at 3.2mg per week of reta (~14 weeks in) and could drop even further. Curious how this plays out.

Yep, this picture lays it out:

 

[birdwhacker]

QueenMuntha said:

birdwhacker said:

QueenMuntha said:

Sema for 3 months, then Tirz for 8 months — that was my history before moving to Reta, and the reason for the change was that loss had become extremely slow.

4 weeks into Reta, with the dose raised to 6 mg, a pain appeared in my upper back, right between the shoulder blades. My first assumption was that I had simply slept in a bad position, but it did not take long to realize this was probably something more, likely referred gallbladder pain.

So I quit Reta and went back on Tirz. 2 weeks later the pain was gone, and it has not come back since. n=1

Wow, that's a lot. Thanks for passing this along.

Someone else's post mentioned their physician claiming that stopping the GLP might undo the gallbladder problems they were experiencing. I figured that was just another instance of doctors making things up. Now I'm starting to think there might be some truth in it.

As it stands, I'm at 3.2mg per week of reta (~14 weeks in) and could drop even further. Curious how this plays out.

Yep, this picture lays it out:

View attachment 10084

Not everyone experiences shoulder pain. If my episodes were more severe, I'm confident I would feel it too, but for now they remain pretty mild.

 

[SoCalGirl]

birdwhacker said:

Gallbladder failure can result as a side effect of the rapid weight loss that GLPs cause — and possibly from GLPs on their own.

Nope, sources won't be provided by me, since I'm no nerd. Google it yourself.

Nope, no doctor has given me a diagnosis. If that rubs you the wrong way, unless you're footing the bill for the appointment, find another thread.

About me: 27m, 6'0", began reta roughly 13 weeks back, and I've dropped 32lbs (14.5kg) since then. Essentially that's a steady 3lbs weekly, right from week 1 on reta. Only cardio and diet, no lifting. A 1200 calorie defecit.

Roughly 2 months in, URQ (upper right quadrant) pain started hitting me during runs. A precise spot at the 1 o'clock position, right along the line of my lowest rib. Kind of like an inside cramp. Once it kicks off, it keeps escalating unless I dial back the activity. Heading home and eating a meal appeared to clear it up for the remainder of the day.

I now realize those attacks were set off by a zero fat cold breakfast (whey shake with nonfat milk).

Keep in mind other people might have completely different symptoms. Some folks enjoy challenging this and implying I'm clueless because no sawbones has told me to go take ibuprofen for it. I've done more research than you, and my dozens of forum posts and reddit threads beat your medical credentials any day of the week.

What comes next is a brief rundown of symptoms, risk factors, and most importantly what you can do to fix it. Go ahead and search reddit.com/r/gallbladder, reddit.com/r/altgallbladder, and other forums if you want more experiences. I just want to inform people using the search function in future about what they can do to potentially keep their gallbladder (hold out until surgery is required) for as long as they can.

TMI warning:

Since this all began, I've also observed that taurine (any amount) and TUDCA make me shit my entire ass within minutes of taking them. Neither supplement normally does this. If taurine makes you immediately shit your pants, your gallbladder might be problematic! The poo is yellow or orange, burns, and doesn't smell or look like normal poo. It also floats on top of the water due to poorly digested lipids.

Both taurine and TUDCA stimulate bile flow. When the gallbladder is functioning poorly due to inflammation, sludge, or stones, taking something to stimulate it causes it to dump out all of the bile which subsequently stimulates the colon to produce lubricating mucous that tells you to shit your britches.

Things that are bad for your gallbladder include: Opiates, GLPs, calcium channel blockers, progesterone, merely being a woman, being over 40, being fat, not being fat too quickly after being fat, fasting, keto, skipping breakfast, cold drinks, nicotine, excess calcium, excess copper, excess iron, and beef.

Gallbladder issues strike women more often. Surgery and medical intervention are needed more often by men.

Here is what you can do to unfuck your gallbladder:

• Digestive enzymes
  
• Chanca piedra
  
• Curucumin (turmeric) extract (with piperine)
  
• Betaine HCL with Pepsin
  
• Ox Bile
  
• TUDCA
  
• UDCA (Medication: Ursodiol)
  
• Magnesium malate
  
• Psilium husk, magnesium malate, zinc, lemon juice, ginger, vinegar
  
• Oxytocin peptide

UDCA is the medication that a doctor would prescribe you to potentially dissolve gallstones. This does not work in more than half of cases, but you and me are built different so our chances are much better. TUDCA is taurine conjugated UDCA. Research shows that UDCA is more effective than TUDCA in dissolving stones. I haven't tried UDCA yet, but TUDCA produced an immediate relief in URQ symptoms for me (and taurine to a lesser extent). TUDCA is also used by bodybuilders and alcoholics to help protect the liver.

Chanca piedra, also known as stone breaker (a little on the nose imo), is some kind of bullshit tea that was originally used to break down kidney stones. Apparently is works for gallstones as well. From what I've seen in my research, this is one of the more effective treatments on par with UDCA. There are extract capsules on Amazon, and it seems that pairing these capsules with tea would be the smart move.

Curucumin with piperine, it's fucking turmeric. It's gotta be super good for you. The people on reddit told me to take it. Can't hurt, right? When it comes to herbal extracts and more esoteric supplements, I trust nootropicsdepot more than anyone on Amazon, so I'm gonna mention them since they have some high quality curucumin extracts available. I'll be picking them up for sure.

Digestive enzymes and betaine HCL with pepsin: Again, it's in the name. Digestive enzymes? That shit has to be super good for digestion. Betaine HCL with Pepsin, I have actually taken before when I was much younger. It cured my indigestion and I was quite impressed, but I never actually bought more. People on Reddit who have actually have success recommend the stone breaker tea in the morning, and the enzymes+pepsin taken before every meal. I personally would like very much to digest my fish oil again instead of dumping it into my toilet bowl.

Ox Bile: Gonna be honest, I don't know if this is totally necessary with UDCA/TUDCA since those are already bile salts. Use at your discretion, it comes up a lot so I had to mention it.

Magnesium Malate: Magnesium and zinc are good for the gallbladder. To be honest, if you're not already supplementing one or both of these, I have to wonder if you're responsible enough to be using peptides at all. I recommend malate, because I heard through a little birdy that malic acid is also good for stone dissolution and this seems like a good way to kill two paraquets with one cholesterol stone.



Oxytocin: This is a fun one and it's actually been super beneficial in my routine. Oxytocin is known for two things: Making you poop, and causing headaches. It excels at both of these tasks. In-fact, I have a headache right now. I was curious and I looked up the mechanism and found out that oxytocin causes contractions in the gallbladder that help push out bile acids.

My routine currently is as follows: Wake up, go make a hot toddy with honey, ginger, lemon juice, and cayenne pepper (surprisingly good). Then I chug down some psilium husk, and I chase it with 500mg tudca and a few grams of taurine while sipping the warm mixture. Then I have a few prunes and drink a shit load of olive oil. Then as I'm nearing the end of my drink, I blast 200-500mcg of oxytocin. After about ten minutes, the gall bladder starts dumping and I have a BM.

Today is day 3 of this routine, and I actually haven't pooped yet today because the gallbladder is getting better. Poops are looking slightly more normal, and I'm actually doing the routine for a second time right now after i had my dinner (7pm here). I'm going to add all of the above in next month and try to actually dissolve the stones and keep them dissolved moving forward. Thank God I'm unemployed and had the time to figure all of this out because the surgery is wildly expensive and good luck getting one immediately if it isn't like threatening or you don't have 10k sitting around.

Birdwhacker out!

Edit: Big update everyone, I managed to digest all of my food today and my poop was solid and somewhat brown for the first time in weeks. There is hope after all.

This is such a help — I'm putting in an order this minute for my annoying K stones. I was completely in the dark on any of this, and I'm someone who researches constantly. What a discovery! Thanks!

 

[birdwhacker]

SoCalGirl said:

birdwhacker said:

Gallbladder failure can result as a side effect of the rapid weight loss that GLPs cause — and possibly from GLPs on their own.

Nope, sources won't be provided by me, since I'm no nerd. Google it yourself.

Nope, no doctor has given me a diagnosis. If that rubs you the wrong way, unless you're footing the bill for the appointment, find another thread.

About me: 27m, 6'0", began reta roughly 13 weeks back, and I've dropped 32lbs (14.5kg) since then. Essentially that's a steady 3lbs weekly, right from week 1 on reta. Only cardio and diet, no lifting. A 1200 calorie defecit.

Roughly 2 months in, URQ (upper right quadrant) pain started hitting me during runs. A precise spot at the 1 o'clock position, right along the line of my lowest rib. Kind of like an inside cramp. Once it kicks off, it keeps escalating unless I dial back the activity. Heading home and eating a meal appeared to clear it up for the remainder of the day.

I now realize those attacks were set off by a zero fat cold breakfast (whey shake with nonfat milk).

Keep in mind other people might have completely different symptoms. Some folks enjoy challenging this and implying I'm clueless because no sawbones has told me to go take ibuprofen for it. I've done more research than you, and my dozens of forum posts and reddit threads beat your medical credentials any day of the week.

What comes next is a brief rundown of symptoms, risk factors, and most importantly what you can do to fix it. Go ahead and search reddit.com/r/gallbladder, reddit.com/r/altgallbladder, and other forums if you want more experiences. I just want to inform people using the search function in future about what they can do to potentially keep their gallbladder (hold out until surgery is required) for as long as they can.

TMI warning:

Since this all began, I've also observed that taurine (any amount) and TUDCA make me shit my entire ass within minutes of taking them. Neither supplement normally does this. If taurine makes you immediately shit your pants, your gallbladder might be problematic! The poo is yellow or orange, burns, and doesn't smell or look like normal poo. It also floats on top of the water due to poorly digested lipids.

Both taurine and TUDCA stimulate bile flow. When the gallbladder is functioning poorly due to inflammation, sludge, or stones, taking something to stimulate it causes it to dump out all of the bile which subsequently stimulates the colon to produce lubricating mucous that tells you to shit your britches.

Things that are bad for your gallbladder include: Opiates, GLPs, calcium channel blockers, progesterone, merely being a woman, being over 40, being fat, not being fat too quickly after being fat, fasting, keto, skipping breakfast, cold drinks, nicotine, excess calcium, excess copper, excess iron, and beef.

Gallbladder issues strike women more often. Surgery and medical intervention are needed more often by men.

Here is what you can do to unfuck your gallbladder:

• Digestive enzymes
  
• Chanca piedra
  
• Curucumin (turmeric) extract (with piperine)
  
• Betaine HCL with Pepsin
  
• Ox Bile
  
• TUDCA
  
• UDCA (Medication: Ursodiol)
  
• Magnesium malate
  
• Psilium husk, magnesium malate, zinc, lemon juice, ginger, vinegar
  
• Oxytocin peptide

UDCA is the medication that a doctor would prescribe you to potentially dissolve gallstones. This does not work in more than half of cases, but you and me are built different so our chances are much better. TUDCA is taurine conjugated UDCA. Research shows that UDCA is more effective than TUDCA in dissolving stones. I haven't tried UDCA yet, but TUDCA produced an immediate relief in URQ symptoms for me (and taurine to a lesser extent). TUDCA is also used by bodybuilders and alcoholics to help protect the liver.

Chanca piedra, also known as stone breaker (a little on the nose imo), is some kind of bullshit tea that was originally used to break down kidney stones. Apparently is works for gallstones as well. From what I've seen in my research, this is one of the more effective treatments on par with UDCA. There are extract capsules on Amazon, and it seems that pairing these capsules with tea would be the smart move.

Curucumin with piperine, it's fucking turmeric. It's gotta be super good for you. The people on reddit told me to take it. Can't hurt, right? When it comes to herbal extracts and more esoteric supplements, I trust nootropicsdepot more than anyone on Amazon, so I'm gonna mention them since they have some high quality curucumin extracts available. I'll be picking them up for sure.

Digestive enzymes and betaine HCL with pepsin: Again, it's in the name. Digestive enzymes? That shit has to be super good for digestion. Betaine HCL with Pepsin, I have actually taken before when I was much younger. It cured my indigestion and I was quite impressed, but I never actually bought more. People on Reddit who have actually have success recommend the stone breaker tea in the morning, and the enzymes+pepsin taken before every meal. I personally would like very much to digest my fish oil again instead of dumping it into my toilet bowl.

Ox Bile: Gonna be honest, I don't know if this is totally necessary with UDCA/TUDCA since those are already bile salts. Use at your discretion, it comes up a lot so I had to mention it.

Magnesium Malate: Magnesium and zinc are good for the gallbladder. To be honest, if you're not already supplementing one or both of these, I have to wonder if you're responsible enough to be using peptides at all. I recommend malate, because I heard through a little birdy that malic acid is also good for stone dissolution and this seems like a good way to kill two paraquets with one cholesterol stone.



Oxytocin: This is a fun one and it's actually been super beneficial in my routine. Oxytocin is known for two things: Making you poop, and causing headaches. It excels at both of these tasks. In-fact, I have a headache right now. I was curious and I looked up the mechanism and found out that oxytocin causes contractions in the gallbladder that help push out bile acids.

My routine currently is as follows: Wake up, go make a hot toddy with honey, ginger, lemon juice, and cayenne pepper (surprisingly good). Then I chug down some psilium husk, and I chase it with 500mg tudca and a few grams of taurine while sipping the warm mixture. Then I have a few prunes and drink a shit load of olive oil. Then as I'm nearing the end of my drink, I blast 200-500mcg of oxytocin. After about ten minutes, the gall bladder starts dumping and I have a BM.

Today is day 3 of this routine, and I actually haven't pooped yet today because the gallbladder is getting better. Poops are looking slightly more normal, and I'm actually doing the routine for a second time right now after i had my dinner (7pm here). I'm going to add all of the above in next month and try to actually dissolve the stones and keep them dissolved moving forward. Thank God I'm unemployed and had the time to figure all of this out because the surgery is wildly expensive and good luck getting one immediately if it isn't like threatening or you don't have 10k sitting around.

Birdwhacker out!

Edit: Big update everyone, I managed to digest all of my food today and my poop was solid and somewhat brown for the first time in weeks. There is hope after all.

This is such a help — I'm putting in an order this minute for my annoying K stones. I was completely in the dark on any of this, and I'm someone who researches constantly. What a discovery! Thanks!

Glad it helped! My particular cocktail of autism, perfectionism, and joblessness means I tend to dig up stuff that adults with less extreme internet habits might struggle to locate.

After my initial research sessions, I honestly figured I was doomed, because UDCA/TUDCA results are pretty poor. Then I gave it one final shot and found Chanca Piedra.

Wishing you the best of luck!

 

[Blueeyedme]

SoCalGirl said:

birdwhacker said:

Gallbladder failure can result as a side effect of the rapid weight loss that GLPs cause — and possibly from GLPs on their own.

Nope, sources won't be provided by me, since I'm no nerd. Google it yourself.

Nope, no doctor has given me a diagnosis. If that rubs you the wrong way, unless you're footing the bill for the appointment, find another thread.

About me: 27m, 6'0", began reta roughly 13 weeks back, and I've dropped 32lbs (14.5kg) since then. Essentially that's a steady 3lbs weekly, right from week 1 on reta. Only cardio and diet, no lifting. A 1200 calorie defecit.

Roughly 2 months in, URQ (upper right quadrant) pain started hitting me during runs. A precise spot at the 1 o'clock position, right along the line of my lowest rib. Kind of like an inside cramp. Once it kicks off, it keeps escalating unless I dial back the activity. Heading home and eating a meal appeared to clear it up for the remainder of the day.

I now realize those attacks were set off by a zero fat cold breakfast (whey shake with nonfat milk).

Keep in mind other people might have completely different symptoms. Some folks enjoy challenging this and implying I'm clueless because no sawbones has told me to go take ibuprofen for it. I've done more research than you, and my dozens of forum posts and reddit threads beat your medical credentials any day of the week.

What comes next is a brief rundown of symptoms, risk factors, and most importantly what you can do to fix it. Go ahead and search reddit.com/r/gallbladder, reddit.com/r/altgallbladder, and other forums if you want more experiences. I just want to inform people using the search function in future about what they can do to potentially keep their gallbladder (hold out until surgery is required) for as long as they can.

TMI warning:

Since this all began, I've also observed that taurine (any amount) and TUDCA make me shit my entire ass within minutes of taking them. Neither supplement normally does this. If taurine makes you immediately shit your pants, your gallbladder might be problematic! The poo is yellow or orange, burns, and doesn't smell or look like normal poo. It also floats on top of the water due to poorly digested lipids.

Both taurine and TUDCA stimulate bile flow. When the gallbladder is functioning poorly due to inflammation, sludge, or stones, taking something to stimulate it causes it to dump out all of the bile which subsequently stimulates the colon to produce lubricating mucous that tells you to shit your britches.

Things that are bad for your gallbladder include: Opiates, GLPs, calcium channel blockers, progesterone, merely being a woman, being over 40, being fat, not being fat too quickly after being fat, fasting, keto, skipping breakfast, cold drinks, nicotine, excess calcium, excess copper, excess iron, and beef.

Gallbladder issues strike women more often. Surgery and medical intervention are needed more often by men.

Here is what you can do to unfuck your gallbladder:

• Digestive enzymes
  
• Chanca piedra
  
• Curucumin (turmeric) extract (with piperine)
  
• Betaine HCL with Pepsin
  
• Ox Bile
  
• TUDCA
  
• UDCA (Medication: Ursodiol)
  
• Magnesium malate
  
• Psilium husk, magnesium malate, zinc, lemon juice, ginger, vinegar
  
• Oxytocin peptide

UDCA is the medication that a doctor would prescribe you to potentially dissolve gallstones. This does not work in more than half of cases, but you and me are built different so our chances are much better. TUDCA is taurine conjugated UDCA. Research shows that UDCA is more effective than TUDCA in dissolving stones. I haven't tried UDCA yet, but TUDCA produced an immediate relief in URQ symptoms for me (and taurine to a lesser extent). TUDCA is also used by bodybuilders and alcoholics to help protect the liver.

Chanca piedra, also known as stone breaker (a little on the nose imo), is some kind of bullshit tea that was originally used to break down kidney stones. Apparently is works for gallstones as well. From what I've seen in my research, this is one of the more effective treatments on par with UDCA. There are extract capsules on Amazon, and it seems that pairing these capsules with tea would be the smart move.

Curucumin with piperine, it's fucking turmeric. It's gotta be super good for you. The people on reddit told me to take it. Can't hurt, right? When it comes to herbal extracts and more esoteric supplements, I trust nootropicsdepot more than anyone on Amazon, so I'm gonna mention them since they have some high quality curucumin extracts available. I'll be picking them up for sure.

Digestive enzymes and betaine HCL with pepsin: Again, it's in the name. Digestive enzymes? That shit has to be super good for digestion. Betaine HCL with Pepsin, I have actually taken before when I was much younger. It cured my indigestion and I was quite impressed, but I never actually bought more. People on Reddit who have actually have success recommend the stone breaker tea in the morning, and the enzymes+pepsin taken before every meal. I personally would like very much to digest my fish oil again instead of dumping it into my toilet bowl.

Ox Bile: Gonna be honest, I don't know if this is totally necessary with UDCA/TUDCA since those are already bile salts. Use at your discretion, it comes up a lot so I had to mention it.

Magnesium Malate: Magnesium and zinc are good for the gallbladder. To be honest, if you're not already supplementing one or both of these, I have to wonder if you're responsible enough to be using peptides at all. I recommend malate, because I heard through a little birdy that malic acid is also good for stone dissolution and this seems like a good way to kill two paraquets with one cholesterol stone.



Oxytocin: This is a fun one and it's actually been super beneficial in my routine. Oxytocin is known for two things: Making you poop, and causing headaches. It excels at both of these tasks. In-fact, I have a headache right now. I was curious and I looked up the mechanism and found out that oxytocin causes contractions in the gallbladder that help push out bile acids.

My routine currently is as follows: Wake up, go make a hot toddy with honey, ginger, lemon juice, and cayenne pepper (surprisingly good). Then I chug down some psilium husk, and I chase it with 500mg tudca and a few grams of taurine while sipping the warm mixture. Then I have a few prunes and drink a shit load of olive oil. Then as I'm nearing the end of my drink, I blast 200-500mcg of oxytocin. After about ten minutes, the gall bladder starts dumping and I have a BM.

Today is day 3 of this routine, and I actually haven't pooped yet today because the gallbladder is getting better. Poops are looking slightly more normal, and I'm actually doing the routine for a second time right now after i had my dinner (7pm here). I'm going to add all of the above in next month and try to actually dissolve the stones and keep them dissolved moving forward. Thank God I'm unemployed and had the time to figure all of this out because the surgery is wildly expensive and good luck getting one immediately if it isn't like threatening or you don't have 10k sitting around.

Birdwhacker out!

Edit: Big update everyone, I managed to digest all of my food today and my poop was solid and somewhat brown for the first time in weeks. There is hope after all.

This is such a help — I'm putting in an order this minute for my annoying K stones. I was completely in the dark on any of this, and I'm someone who researches constantly. What a discovery! Thanks!

Wishing you the best of luck!! As for me, Chanca Piedra was completely useless against my kidney stones. Once you've gone through laser lithotripsy with ureteral stents a couple of times, you'll keep yourself hydrated like a fish just to make sure that never happens again.

 

[birdwhacker]

Blueeyedme said:

SoCalGirl said:

birdwhacker said:

Gallbladder failure can result as a side effect of the rapid weight loss that GLPs cause — and possibly from GLPs on their own.

Nope, sources won't be provided by me, since I'm no nerd. Google it yourself.

Nope, no doctor has given me a diagnosis. If that rubs you the wrong way, unless you're footing the bill for the appointment, find another thread.

About me: 27m, 6'0", began reta roughly 13 weeks back, and I've dropped 32lbs (14.5kg) since then. Essentially that's a steady 3lbs weekly, right from week 1 on reta. Only cardio and diet, no lifting. A 1200 calorie defecit.

Roughly 2 months in, URQ (upper right quadrant) pain started hitting me during runs. A precise spot at the 1 o'clock position, right along the line of my lowest rib. Kind of like an inside cramp. Once it kicks off, it keeps escalating unless I dial back the activity. Heading home and eating a meal appeared to clear it up for the remainder of the day.

I now realize those attacks were set off by a zero fat cold breakfast (whey shake with nonfat milk).

Keep in mind other people might have completely different symptoms. Some folks enjoy challenging this and implying I'm clueless because no sawbones has told me to go take ibuprofen for it. I've done more research than you, and my dozens of forum posts and reddit threads beat your medical credentials any day of the week.

What comes next is a brief rundown of symptoms, risk factors, and most importantly what you can do to fix it. Go ahead and search reddit.com/r/gallbladder, reddit.com/r/altgallbladder, and other forums if you want more experiences. I just want to inform people using the search function in future about what they can do to potentially keep their gallbladder (hold out until surgery is required) for as long as they can.

TMI warning:

Since this all began, I've also observed that taurine (any amount) and TUDCA make me shit my entire ass within minutes of taking them. Neither supplement normally does this. If taurine makes you immediately shit your pants, your gallbladder might be problematic! The poo is yellow or orange, burns, and doesn't smell or look like normal poo. It also floats on top of the water due to poorly digested lipids.

Both taurine and TUDCA stimulate bile flow. When the gallbladder is functioning poorly due to inflammation, sludge, or stones, taking something to stimulate it causes it to dump out all of the bile which subsequently stimulates the colon to produce lubricating mucous that tells you to shit your britches.

Things that are bad for your gallbladder include: Opiates, GLPs, calcium channel blockers, progesterone, merely being a woman, being over 40, being fat, not being fat too quickly after being fat, fasting, keto, skipping breakfast, cold drinks, nicotine, excess calcium, excess copper, excess iron, and beef.

Gallbladder issues strike women more often. Surgery and medical intervention are needed more often by men.

Here is what you can do to unfuck your gallbladder:

• Digestive enzymes
  
• Chanca piedra
  
• Curucumin (turmeric) extract (with piperine)
  
• Betaine HCL with Pepsin
  
• Ox Bile
  
• TUDCA
  
• UDCA (Medication: Ursodiol)
  
• Magnesium malate
  
• Psilium husk, magnesium malate, zinc, lemon juice, ginger, vinegar
  
• Oxytocin peptide

UDCA is the medication that a doctor would prescribe you to potentially dissolve gallstones. This does not work in more than half of cases, but you and me are built different so our chances are much better. TUDCA is taurine conjugated UDCA. Research shows that UDCA is more effective than TUDCA in dissolving stones. I haven't tried UDCA yet, but TUDCA produced an immediate relief in URQ symptoms for me (and taurine to a lesser extent). TUDCA is also used by bodybuilders and alcoholics to help protect the liver.

Chanca piedra, also known as stone breaker (a little on the nose imo), is some kind of bullshit tea that was originally used to break down kidney stones. Apparently is works for gallstones as well. From what I've seen in my research, this is one of the more effective treatments on par with UDCA. There are extract capsules on Amazon, and it seems that pairing these capsules with tea would be the smart move.

Curucumin with piperine, it's fucking turmeric. It's gotta be super good for you. The people on reddit told me to take it. Can't hurt, right? When it comes to herbal extracts and more esoteric supplements, I trust nootropicsdepot more than anyone on Amazon, so I'm gonna mention them since they have some high quality curucumin extracts available. I'll be picking them up for sure.

Digestive enzymes and betaine HCL with pepsin: Again, it's in the name. Digestive enzymes? That shit has to be super good for digestion. Betaine HCL with Pepsin, I have actually taken before when I was much younger. It cured my indigestion and I was quite impressed, but I never actually bought more. People on Reddit who have actually have success recommend the stone breaker tea in the morning, and the enzymes+pepsin taken before every meal. I personally would like very much to digest my fish oil again instead of dumping it into my toilet bowl.

Ox Bile: Gonna be honest, I don't know if this is totally necessary with UDCA/TUDCA since those are already bile salts. Use at your discretion, it comes up a lot so I had to mention it.

Magnesium Malate: Magnesium and zinc are good for the gallbladder. To be honest, if you're not already supplementing one or both of these, I have to wonder if you're responsible enough to be using peptides at all. I recommend malate, because I heard through a little birdy that malic acid is also good for stone dissolution and this seems like a good way to kill two paraquets with one cholesterol stone.



Oxytocin: This is a fun one and it's actually been super beneficial in my routine. Oxytocin is known for two things: Making you poop, and causing headaches. It excels at both of these tasks. In-fact, I have a headache right now. I was curious and I looked up the mechanism and found out that oxytocin causes contractions in the gallbladder that help push out bile acids.

My routine currently is as follows: Wake up, go make a hot toddy with honey, ginger, lemon juice, and cayenne pepper (surprisingly good). Then I chug down some psilium husk, and I chase it with 500mg tudca and a few grams of taurine while sipping the warm mixture. Then I have a few prunes and drink a shit load of olive oil. Then as I'm nearing the end of my drink, I blast 200-500mcg of oxytocin. After about ten minutes, the gall bladder starts dumping and I have a BM.

Today is day 3 of this routine, and I actually haven't pooped yet today because the gallbladder is getting better. Poops are looking slightly more normal, and I'm actually doing the routine for a second time right now after i had my dinner (7pm here). I'm going to add all of the above in next month and try to actually dissolve the stones and keep them dissolved moving forward. Thank God I'm unemployed and had the time to figure all of this out because the surgery is wildly expensive and good luck getting one immediately if it isn't like threatening or you don't have 10k sitting around.

Birdwhacker out!

Edit: Big update everyone, I managed to digest all of my food today and my poop was solid and somewhat brown for the first time in weeks. There is hope after all.

This is such a help — I'm putting in an order this minute for my annoying K stones. I was completely in the dark on any of this, and I'm someone who researches constantly. What a discovery! Thanks!

Wishing you the best of luck!! As for me, Chanca Piedra was completely useless against my kidney stones. Once you've gone through laser lithotripsy with ureteral stents a couple of times, you'll keep yourself hydrated like a fish just to make sure that never happens again.

I swear, that's the reason I keep drinking water.

 

[lastresort]

Every single one of your gallbladders is simply feeble.

 

[Terminix8]

QueenMuntha said:

Sema for 3 months, then Tirz for 8 months — that was my history before moving to Reta, and the reason for the change was that loss had become extremely slow.

4 weeks into Reta, with the dose raised to 6 mg, a pain appeared in my upper back, right between the shoulder blades. My first assumption was that I had simply slept in a bad position, but it did not take long to realize this was probably something more, likely referred gallbladder pain.

So I quit Reta and went back on Tirz. 2 weeks later the pain was gone, and it has not come back since. n=1

My gallbladder was already gone before I ever touched Reta. So what you're saying is I can go full throttle without anything blowing up on me?

 

[birdwhacker]

Terminix8 said:

QueenMuntha said:

Sema for 3 months, then Tirz for 8 months — that was my history before moving to Reta, and the reason for the change was that loss had become extremely slow.

4 weeks into Reta, with the dose raised to 6 mg, a pain appeared in my upper back, right between the shoulder blades. My first assumption was that I had simply slept in a bad position, but it did not take long to realize this was probably something more, likely referred gallbladder pain.

So I quit Reta and went back on Tirz. 2 weeks later the pain was gone, and it has not come back since. n=1

My gallbladder was already gone before I ever touched Reta. So what you're saying is I can go full throttle without anything blowing up on me?

Absolutely! Just lie down on your right side and see if I care one bit!