Epithalon

[vale113]

laansasa said:


I planned to start today but not sure if I want to do it tonight or in the a.m. tomorrow. I just received it Friday but didn't get my a$$ in gear to do it this weekend. I took a gamble and ordered the whole kit of 10mg from a US warehouse chinese because it was only $70 and made more finacial sense than a local reseller at $70 per vial. Who knows I might end up with 7 unused vials in my freezer for the rest of my existence. Like someone else said here, "my will's executor can decide what to do with them"

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It would be 33 euros per vial plus water separately, in China I would pay about the same as you but you would have to add 50 usd for shipping, but if I only use 10mg it seems like a waste to have another 9 unused vials, but it would be a great idea to leave it written in my will

 

[Chili777]

You don't need massive doses of Epitalon for it to be effective. My first cycle was 1 mg via IN and I just finished my second at 1 mg SQ. I ran for 20 days the first time and 10 days the second time, but I prefer the longer cycle, which I'll do every 4 months. I might go to 2 mg the next cycle, but no further.

 

[vale113]

Chili777 said:


You don't need massive doses of Epitalon for it to be effective. My first cycle was 1 mg via IN and I just finished my second at 1 mg SQ. I ran for 20 days the first time and 10 days the second time, but I prefer the longer cycle, which I'll do every 4 months. I might go to 2 mg the next cycle, but no further.

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So I'll start with the study doses, and I'll see what effect it has on me.

 

[Dos-Dox]

Yes, there are a variety of protocols and I think it comes down to experimenting to see what works best for you. Anything showing >2 mg/day I throw out based on the widely cited translation error from the original compound.

As far as whether you do 0.3-0.5 mg/day or 1-2 mg/day, I think that depends on how many times per year you want to run it. If you want to do it 3-4 times per year, then the standard seems to be on the higher side of those ranges I cited. If you want to do it for the first 10 or 20 days per month, then it’s common to do the smaller dosage.

I’ve read all of Chili’s posts and Random’s posts about it and think they’ve given some great details that are worth reading. Lots of great discussions and anecdotal experiences on Peppy’s as well.

The Anela protocol calls for 100-500 mcg/day for 10-20 days each month. That (which I think is close to Random’s protocol if not identical) is what I’ve chosen to do.

Not many protocols differentiate between Epitalon, NA Epitalon, and NA Epitalon Amidate, however. Since NA Epitalon Amidate is more resistant to enzymatic breakdown, I’m choosing to use the smaller dosage.

But, back to the original question of the post, most of the discussions say it helps with sleep tremendously, and that makes sense based on the mechanisms. And I’m excited to experience that as well

 

[vale113]

Dos-Dox said:


Yes, there are a variety of protocols and I think it comes down to experimenting to see what works best for you. Anything showing >2 mg/day I throw out based on the widely cited translation error from the original compound.

As far as whether you do 0.3-0.5 mg/day or 1-2 mg/day, I think that depends on how many times per year you want to run it. If you want to do it 3-4 times per year, then the standard seems to be on the higher side of those ranges I cited. If you want to do it for the first 10 or 20 days per month, then it’s common to do the smaller dosage.

I’ve read all of Chili’s posts and Random’s posts about it and think they’ve given some great details that are worth reading. Lots of great discussions and anecdotal experiences on Peppy’s as well.

The Anela protocol calls for 100-500 mcg/day for 10-20 days each month. That (which I think is close to Random’s protocol if not identical) is what I’ve chosen to do.

Not many protocols differentiate between Epitalon, NA Epitalon, and NA Epitalon Amidate, however. Since NA Epitalon Amidate is more resistant to enzymatic breakdown, I’m choosing to use the smaller dosage.

But, back to the original question of the post, most of the discussions say it helps with sleep tremendously, and that makes sense based on the mechanisms. And I’m excited to experience that as well

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If I buy the kit I think I'll do 2 or 3 cycles a year at most

 

[trojanpeptide]

I've used 1mg for 10 days. Seemed safe enough, but I didn't notice anything. I already sleep hard.

And I may go 10mg a day in the future, but atm, 1mg is fine.

 

[Chili777]

Dos-Dox said:


Yes, there are a variety of protocols and I think it comes down to experimenting to see what works best for you. Anything showing >2 mg/day I throw out based on the widely cited translation error from the original compound.

As far as whether you do 0.3-0.5 mg/day or 1-2 mg/day, I think that depends on how many times per year you want to run it. If you want to do it 3-4 times per year, then the standard seems to be on the higher side of those ranges I cited. If you want to do it for the first 10 or 20 days per month, then it’s common to do the smaller dosage.

I’ve read all of Chili’s posts and Random’s posts about it and think they’ve given some great details that are worth reading. Lots of great discussions and anecdotal experiences on Peppy’s as well.

The Anela protocol calls for 100-500 mcg/day for 10-20 days each month. That (which I think is close to Random’s protocol if not identical) is what I’ve chosen to do.

Not many protocols differentiate between Epitalon, NA Epitalon, and NA Epitalon Amidate, however. Since NA Epitalon Amidate is more resistant to enzymatic breakdown, I’m choosing to use the smaller dosage.

But, back to the original question of the post, most of the discussions say it helps with sleep tremendously, and that makes sense based on the mechanisms. And I’m excited to experience that as well

Click to expand...

I have NA Epitalon on the way (if it ever gets here) and look forward to researching it. I'll probably start at 500 mcg when I do. Being older, with a TBI history, I like the neurological benefits over everything else. Being on Reta also, the sleep pattern changes haven't been as significant, but many people do experience deeper sleep and more REM cycles after a run.

 

[V6R3W]

Chili777 said:


I have NA Epitalon on the way (if it ever gets here) and look forward to researching it. I'll probably start at 500 mcg when I do. Being older, with a TBI history, I like the neurological benefits over everything else. Being on Reta also, the sleep pattern changes haven't been as significant, but many people do experience deeper sleep and more REM cycles after a run.

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Oh interesting, do you have any information about the TBI-related benefits? Anything published?

 

[Chili777]

V6R3W said:


Oh interesting, do you have any information about the TBI-related benefits? Anything published?

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Yes, there is. I'll dig them up.

 

[retarequired]

I am very interested in the difference between NA Epitalon as opposed to regular Epitalon, so if anyone has any experience with that, please do share! It seems logical to assume a lower dose of NA Epitalon may be required to achieve the same result one would at a certain dose of Epitalon, but I haven't been able to find anything on it.

 

[Chili777]

This is a nice write-up on NA Epitalon, but there has been no human research on it, unlike standard Epitalon. Most of it is self-reported anecdata, much like what we would do here. The article recommends 1-5 mg SQ, but with NA-being so much more bioavailable and longer lasting, I think it might lend itself better to IN administration. I'll make a spray with 250 mcg per spray and start there.

N-Acetyl Epithalon Amidate: Complete Guide | Peptides.wiki



Complete guide to N-Acetyl Epithalon Amidate: discovery, mechanism, effects, dosing, results, and safety. Understand this telomerase-activating peptide.

peptides.wiki

 

[Dos-Dox]

retarequired said:


I am very interested in the difference between NA Epitalon as opposed to regular Epitalon, so if anyone has any experience with that, please do share! It seems logical to assume a lower dose of NA Epitalon may be required to achieve the same result one would at a certain dose of Epitalon, but I haven't been able to find anything on it.

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Yeah, the literature seems a little sparse with regards to the nuances between the 3 different versions of Epitalon. (Don’t forget that NA Epitalon isn’t exactly the same as NA Epitalon Amidate.)

Here’s a comment on Peppy’s with an oversimplified explanation:

And for those following along for the sleep benefit discussion, here’s another thread that I bookmarked a while back. There are some good comments with sleep data charts and graphs included. https://chat.peppys.org/t/my-sleep-data-epithalon-dsip-pinealon-protocol/26627

 

[cheaperseeker]

Dos-Dox said:


Yes, there are a variety of protocols and I think it comes down to experimenting to see what works best for you. Anything showing >2 mg/day I throw out based on the widely cited translation error from the original compound.

As far as whether you do 0.3-0.5 mg/day or 1-2 mg/day, I think that depends on how many times per year you want to run it. If you want to do it 3-4 times per year, then the standard seems to be on the higher side of those ranges I cited. If you want to do it for the first 10 or 20 days per month, then it’s common to do the smaller dosage.

I’ve read all of Chili’s posts and Random’s posts about it and think they’ve given some great details that are worth reading. Lots of great discussions and anecdotal experiences on Peppy’s as well.

The Anela protocol calls for 100-500 mcg/day for 10-20 days each month. That (which I think is close to Random’s protocol if not identical) is what I’ve chosen to do.

Not many protocols differentiate between Epitalon, NA Epitalon, and NA Epitalon Amidate, however. Since NA Epitalon Amidate is more resistant to enzymatic breakdown, I’m choosing to use the smaller dosage.

But, back to the original question of the post, most of the discussions say it helps with sleep tremendously, and that makes sense based on the mechanisms. And I’m excited to experience that as well

Click to expand...

Alright, alright! Y'all (and some more internet info I dug up) have finally convinced me to try 1mg/day cycles, instead of 10mg/day cycles. AI says I might even notice it more because I won't be overloading my receptors. wth I'll give it a go.

 

[Jfrick11]

vale113 said:


Hi guys, Does anyone use Epithalon with Reta? I'd like to try it for sleep. Does it help? What dosage should I start with? Many say mcg, others mg.

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LOVE Epithalon

I initially started it on the wrong high-dose injection protocol and felt pretty rough. Once I realized the mistake , I scaled way back to 1 mg/night x 20 nights and switched to a nasal spray instead. Overall, this was a huge success for me, CRUSHING my my deep sleep...it went from maybe 30 minutes to this during the cycle......and it’s been a really nice break using intra-nasal instead of nightly injections.

I'd like to use this more than 3x per year, so i think I'm going to run it the first 10-15 days of each month.

 

[Dos-Dox]

Jfrick11 said:


LOVE Epithalon

I initially started it on the wrong high-dose injection protocol and felt pretty rough. Once I realized the mistake , I scaled way back to 1 mg/night x 20 nights and switched to a nasal spray instead. Overall, this was a huge success for me, doubling my my deep sleep went from maybe 30 minutes to this......and it’s been a really nice break using intra-nasal instead of nightly injections.

I'd like to use this more than 3x per year, so i think I'm going to run it the first 10-15 days of each month.

View attachment 20747

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Wow! That’s FANTASTIC deep sleep! #goals

 

[Jfrick11]

Dos-Dox said:


Wow! That’s FANTASTIC deep sleep! #goals

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Amen! Game changer for sure

 

[yrrdead]

Chili777 said:


You don't need massive doses of Epitalon for it to be effective. My first cycle was 1 mg via IN and I just finished my second at 1 mg SQ. I ran for 20 days the first time and 10 days the second time, but I prefer the longer cycle, which I'll do every 4 months. I might go to 2 mg the next cycle, but no further.

Click to expand...

Differences from IN to SQ?

 

[vale113]

Jfrick11 said:


LOVE Epithalon

I initially started it on the wrong high-dose injection protocol and felt pretty rough. Once I realized the mistake , I scaled way back to 1 mg/night x 20 nights and switched to a nasal spray instead. Overall, this was a huge success for me, CRUSHING my my deep sleep...it went from maybe 30 minutes to this......and it’s been a really nice break using intra-nasal instead of nightly injections.

I'd like to use this more than 3x per year, so i think I'm going to run it the first 10-15 days of each month.

View attachment 20747

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Do you use the same spray and subcutaneous spray? Or are there different ones sold?

 

[Chili777]

yrrdead said:


Differences from IN to SQ?

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IN for me was almost immediate onset, with brighter colors and sharper definition, and clearer thinking as residual COVID brain fog lifted. Mid-cycle, I noticed I could remember names and terms better. I didn't walk into a room and forget why I did, or forget where I put my car keys, which is a bonus at my age.

My second cycle via SQ, just reinforced the same benefits, although I noticed it took longer for my vision to sharpen, but it was definitely there. My brain fog hasn't returned since the initial cycle. I also wasn't waking up at 3 am like Reta does to me usually. I think IN administration is better because you are placing right it near the brain and optic nerve, so you bypass the hepatic filtering that happens via SQ.

 

[Chili777]

V6R3W said:


Oh interesting, do you have any information about the TBI-related benefits? Anything published?

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These are the studies I found. I asked Gemini to format them and provide links. Semax is actually used in Russia as a treatment following TBI. I think both of them combined would provide an excellent 1-2 punch to both rebuild damage and to limit it. I've also included screen shots from Anela's (creator of the GLOW stack) cycle to show the results of her use of Epitalon to address her brain injury.

I. Clinical Case Studies: Multi-Peptide Protocols​#-i-clinical-case-studies-multi-peptide-protocols

• Rodeo, S. A., et al. (2024): "Nothing Heals Without Cells: A Case Study on Cognitive Reset."
  • Context: Evaluation of a combination of Semax, Epitalon, and Exosomes.
    
  • Finding: Documented a 7.9-year reduction in biological age and significant improvements in executive function.
    
  • Link: Case Study Overview (Restorative Medicine) (Note: Full text availability may vary by institutional access).
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Improving Biological Age, Telomere Length, and Cognition: A Case Report
    
    
    
    The first case study to report on reducing biological age, increasing telomere length, and improving cognition using this unique combination of therapies.
    
    restorativemedicine.org

II. Foundational Longevity & Cardiovascular Trials​#-ii-foundational-longevity-cardiovascular-trials

• Korkushko, O. V., et al. (2006): "Geroprotective Effect of Epithalamine in Elderly Subjects."
  • Finding: A 12-year study showing a 28% reduction in mortality and a 2-fold reduction in cardiovascular failure using pineal peptides.
    
  • Link: PubMed - PMID: 17426848

III. Neurogenesis & Brain Repair Mechanisms​#-iii-neurogenesis-brain-repair-mechanisms

• Khavinson, V. K., et al. (2020): "AEDG Peptide (Epitalon) Stimulates Gene Expression and Protein Synthesis during Neurogenesis."
  • Finding: Epitalon upregulated biomarkers for axon growth: Nestin, GAP43, and \beta-Tubulin III.
    
  • Link: MDPI Molecules - 25(3), 609
• Sibarov, D. A., et al. (2002/2024): "Epitalon Influences Pineal Secretion in Stress-Exposed Rats."
  • Finding: Demonstrated that Epitalon selectively increases c-Fos expression and protects pineal structure specifically during stress/injury.
    
  • Link: PubMed - PMID: 12500171

IV. Acute Neuroprotection & Stroke/TBI (Semax)​#-iv-acute-neuroprotection-stroke-tbi-semax

• Gusev, E. I., Skvortsova, V. I., et al. (2018/Earlier): "Investigation of Mechanisms of Neuroprotective Effect of Semax."
  • Finding: Analyzed the shifting of neuromediatory balance and anti-inflammatory reactions in acute brain ischemia and trauma.
    
  • Link: PubMed - PMID: 10358912
• Lopatina, O. L., et al. (2014): "The Peptide Semax Affects Expression of Genes Related to the Immune and Vascular Systems."
  • Finding: Genome-wide analysis showing Semax influences 90+ genes involved in neural survival and vascular stability after brain injury.
    
  • Link: PMC - PMC3987924

V. Technical Comparison Reference​#-v-technical-comparison-reference

• Khavinson, V. K. (2002): "Peptides and Ageing."
  • Context: A comprehensive review of the transition from Epithalamin (extract) to Epitalon (synthetic tetrapeptide).
    
  • Link: Neuroendocrinology Letters - Volume 23