Do Peptides in Freeze-Dried Powder Form Degrade and Lose Strength as Time Passes?

[Shittersfull]

tubby said:

Shittersfull said:

Just A Cat said:

Keep in mind that we're dealing with a dry powder here. Lowering the storage temperature is possible, yet a dry powder won't truly freeze at all. Also consider that reducing temperature significantly cuts down molecular kinetic energy. And remember, light itself carries energy too. Photolytic Cleavage and Photo-Oxidation are real things.

tldr: Cool and Dark.

I don't mean to argue — I just want to learn more. This same question has been on my mind, so I ran a number of tests. Whether every last bit of moisture can be eliminated is something I doubt. Since I own a freeze dryer, I can say that the lowest moisture level I have ever achieved is roughly 4%. Because of that, my thinking is that a freeze-thaw cycle would lead to a tiny bit of degradation.

That's a fair point to raise. In my view, the aim should be to cut down on freeze/thaw cycling as much as possible — so if you do decide to freeze, aim to hold the temperature steady — because there's no way to tell if the manufacturer ran the freeze drier long enough to reach a very low moisture content.

I'd also guess that once moisture drops below some threshold, water wouldn't "freeze" in the usual sense, and at 0C that certainly wouldn't be happening anymore. Given production standards we can't verify, the most we can do is make informed guesses.

Thanks. The freeze-thaw cycle is precisely the point I was trying to make.

Also, yes—freezing isn't really about 0 degrees c. What matters is a phase change: going from liquid to solid. Take a 13mm wrench I'm holding that's frozen steel—it isn't liquid, it's solid (frozen).

Water that's 100% pure freezes at 0 degrees c. Ethel alcohal freezes at -114 degrees. Combine the two and the freezing piont lands somewhere between them, based on the ratio.

How that plays out here, I have no clue. Still, I don't think it's possable to get rid of every bit of liquid.

I realize this is drifting way too deep into the weeds... and I'm already regretting having posted it.

 

[indolent]

To start with, this subject has already been covered in plenty of threads, so run a search and you'll find more and more and more opinions on it.

Second, you should always look into how EACH individual peptide behaves rather than relying on its molecular class (or whatever). Tirzepatide is well known for being tough and stable, even once it's been reconstituted. Other peptides are less so, or worse.

Third, an unopened lyophilized vial ought to be vacuum-sealed and therefore unaffected by shifts in ambient moisture or condensation. If, when you reconstitute, the vial doesn't forcefully pull in the syringe contents, that could signal a problem. I'd throw it away.

D. I keep years worth of unopened lyophilized tirzepatide in my ordinary freezer, with no extra packaging or protection, I don't worry about the self-defrosting cycle, and I wouldn't toss it because of power outages (which seldom happen where I live). Other people set up elaborate multi-level contingency plans for every "what-if"

Finally, a bit off-topic, I also reconstitute an entire kit at once and keep 9 vials in the freezer. This has been tested nicely for degradation in tirzepatide. Much less nicely for a few peptides, and not tested at all for most ... so I wouldn't do it with anything else. This matter also has many existing threads.

 

[Just A Cat]

tubby said:

Shittersfull said:

Just A Cat said:

Keep in mind that we're dealing with a dry powder here. Lowering the storage temperature is possible, yet a dry powder won't truly freeze at all. Also consider that reducing temperature significantly cuts down molecular kinetic energy. And remember, light itself carries energy too. Photolytic Cleavage and Photo-Oxidation are real things.

tldr: Cool and Dark.

I don't mean to argue — I just want to learn more. This same question has been on my mind, so I ran a number of tests. Whether every last bit of moisture can be eliminated is something I doubt. Since I own a freeze dryer, I can say that the lowest moisture level I have ever achieved is roughly 4%. Because of that, my thinking is that a freeze-thaw cycle would lead to a tiny bit of degradation.

That's a fair point to raise. In my view, the aim should be to cut down on freeze/thaw cycling as much as possible — so if you do decide to freeze, aim to hold the temperature steady — because there's no way to tell if the manufacturer ran the freeze drier long enough to reach a very low moisture content.

I'd also guess that once moisture drops below some threshold, water wouldn't "freeze" in the usual sense, and at 0C that certainly wouldn't be happening anymore. Given production standards we can't verify, the most we can do is make informed guesses.

Even though I don't have hard science to back it up, I feel the same way.

 

[CSM-101]

jmk909er said:

Estarossa19 said:

Based on the tests I've come across (Tirz & Reta), degradation in a freezer is very minimal across a 1-year period.

Is a freezer necessary, or would refrigeration alone suffice?

According to Peter Magic from Janoshik, peptides that have been freeze-dried keep their potency and remain viable for years when stored in a refrigerator, and for decades when kept in a freezer.

 

[GitnFit]

jmk909er said:

professorpeppy said:

jmk909er said:

I've got several 5mg trz vials. After mixing, I give it a minute, swirl it around, but once I've pulled everything into the syringe, there's still white stuff left at the bottom of the vial. Is that how it's supposed to be?

no — after all the BAC is in, do you roll it gently between your hands?

When I reconstitute, I figure I should give it more time. After asking AI, the recommendation I got was to hold off for 10-15 minutes. I'll give that a shot.

What length of time are you allowing for it? We're talking minutes, not more. For a 5 MG vial, what amount of Bac are you drawing? Whenever I mix it up, I keep things in motion until no white specks remain. I either swirl it, or roll it briskly between my palms.

Shaking it and ruining it isn't something I'd stress over either. In my view, you'd need to shake it really hard for any harm to occur. I had a vial of Reta fall from a cabinet roughly 4 feet up, and it took on that shattered-glass appearance, but that cleared up before long.

 

[BNLFL]

GitnFit said:

jmk909er said:

professorpeppy said:

jmk909er said:

I've got several 5mg trz vials. After mixing, I give it a minute, swirl it around, but once I've pulled everything into the syringe, there's still white stuff left at the bottom of the vial. Is that how it's supposed to be?

no — after all the BAC is in, do you roll it gently between your hands?

When I reconstitute, I figure I should give it more time. After asking AI, the recommendation I got was to hold off for 10-15 minutes. I'll give that a shot.

What length of time are you allowing for it? We're talking minutes, not more. For a 5 MG vial, what amount of Bac are you drawing? Whenever I mix it up, I keep things in motion until no white specks remain. I either swirl it, or roll it briskly between my palms.

Shaking it and ruining it isn't something I'd stress over either. In my view, you'd need to shake it really hard for any harm to occur. I had a vial of Reta fall from a cabinet roughly 4 feet up, and it took on that shattered-glass appearance, but that cleared up before long.

If necessary, I can give it up to 1/2 hour. Most of the time, just a few minutes is enough.

 

[Schwossy]

jmk909er said:

I've got several 5mg trz vials. After mixing, I give it a minute, swirl it around, but once I've pulled everything into the syringe, there's still white stuff left at the bottom of the vial. Is that how it's supposed to be?

According to some manufacturers, 37 degrees Celsius is the ideal temperature for reconstitution. I tested this with Reta by combining the bacteriostatic water and the Reta powder straight out of the fridge (at 4 degrees). Getting it to dissolve completely took quite a while – I had to swirl and rotate it – before the solution turned clear. These days I follow the manufacturer's instructions, and it works perfectly. Since daytime temperatures in Thailand are around 30 degrees anyway, I take the peptide and the water out of the fridge an hour beforehand. With the most recent batches, the peptide dissolved completely just by adding the bacteriostatic water slowly; no swirling or rotating was necessary.

 

[7.62fmj]

Just A Cat said:

Keep the powder in a dark, cool location.

And sure, keeping it beside your ammunition works too. /lol

10-4, I'm relocating my entire stash into the freezer and/or fridge. Wish me luck once my wife catches sight of it...

 

[NeiNei]

I never put my lio peptides in the fridge. Do I need to? I only chill them once they're mixed. Does it matter much? Got any numbers? Thanks brothers.

 

[BNLFL]

7.62fmj said:

Just A Cat said:

Keep the powder in a dark, cool location.

And sure, keeping it beside your ammunition works too. /lol

10-4, I'm relocating my entire stash into the freezer and/or fridge. Wish me luck once my wife catches sight of it...

Why would that be? Mine are kept in a closet.

NeiNei said:

I never put my lio peptides in the fridge. Do I need to? I only chill them once they're mixed. Does it matter much? Got any numbers? Thanks brothers.

You should do more reading. They remain stable for longer. What does lio mean?

 

[NeiNei]

BNLFL said:

7.62fmj said:

Just A Cat said:

Keep the powder in a dark, cool location.

And sure, keeping it beside your ammunition works too. /lol

10-4, I'm relocating my entire stash into the freezer and/or fridge. Wish me luck once my wife catches sight of it...

Why would that be? Mine are kept in a closet.

NeiNei said:

I never put my lio peptides in the fridge. Do I need to? I only chill them once they're mixed. Does it matter much? Got any numbers? Thanks brothers.

You should do more reading. They remain stable for longer. What does lio mean?

My mistake — lyophilized is what I meant.

From what I remember, it keeps for quite a while simply stored somewhere dark as well. Around 1 year without any trouble.

 

[CNCCurrency]

jmk909er said:

Can Lyophilized peptides spoil or expire? Occasionally delivery takes a long time, and since you don't want to be left without any, is it acceptable to build up a stockpile of peptides, or will their potency diminish with time?

Peter Magic from Janoshik says there is not much loss even after 10 years.