DIY bacteriostatic water — does anyone here make their own?

[JulezZ]

Hey everyone! It drives me up the wall that pharmacies won't simply sell bac water over the counter. Seriously, what's the reasoning behind that?!

So I've been thinking: pick up sterile water for injection, then draw benzyl alcohol into a sterile syringe and mix it in. On paper it seems like something I could pull off.

Has anybody here actually tried this? Or can someone tell me why it would be a terrible plan?

 

[retarequired]

Finding benzyl alcohol that's injection grade is tough, from what I understand!

In an interview, Peter Magic from Janoshik mentioned—if my memory serves—that plain sterile water or saline works fine. Should you choose that method, be sure to filter it and store it in the fridge.

Compared to mixing in benzyl alcohol that isn't injection grade, this seems like the safer option, though I've come across people who do the latter.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shgk3-u51Ys&t

41:30

 

[BasharTeg]

Honestly, finding BA at injection grade isn't that difficult, particularly within the EU.

To give an example, I picked some up from the Netherlands (injection grade, ph. Eur, USP), and it was simple to locate through whichever search engine you prefer.

Their smallest bottles are 100ml, and they go up to 25 litres

So I got my BA from them (the 100ml bottle will probably outlast me, or at minimum 2-3 years before oxidation sets in, at which point I'll simply buy a replacement), and I used sterile injection water (which is also easy to get in Germany) to mix my own BAC water, costing me next to nothing.

Every reconstitution came out perfectly clear and held up for weeks at a time without any issues.

 

[retarequired]

BasharTeg said:

Honestly, finding BA at injection grade isn't that difficult, particularly within the EU.

To give an example, I picked some up from the Netherlands (injection grade, ph. Eur, USP), and it was simple to locate through whichever search engine you prefer.

Their smallest bottles are 100ml, and they go up to 25 litres

So I got my BA from them (the 100ml bottle will probably outlast me, or at minimum 2-3 years before oxidation sets in, at which point I'll simply buy a replacement), and I used sterile injection water (which is also easy to get in Germany) to mix my own BAC water, costing me next to nothing.

Every reconstitution came out perfectly clear and held up for weeks at a time without any issues.

When I first checked, I clearly missed that detail! Now I can see it's actually injection grade. That's my mistake.

 

[dazedconfused_]

BasharTeg said:

Honestly, finding BA at injection grade isn't that difficult, particularly within the EU.

To give an example, I picked some up from the Netherlands (injection grade, ph. Eur, USP), and it was simple to locate through whichever search engine you prefer.

Their smallest bottles are 100ml, and they go up to 25 litres

So I got my BA from them (the 100ml bottle will probably outlast me, or at minimum 2-3 years before oxidation sets in, at which point I'll simply buy a replacement), and I used sterile injection water (which is also easy to get in Germany) to mix my own BAC water, costing me next to nothing.

Every reconstitution came out perfectly clear and held up for weeks at a time without any issues.

How do you go about it? Do you think the result stays sterile?

In Germany, finding BAC is getting tougher all the time. That's why I'm weighing two options: plain sterile water, or mixing in BA on my own. Still, that second route strikes me as a bit dicey? Ha, I can't decide.

 

[BasharTeg]

dazedconfused_ said:

BasharTeg said:

Honestly, finding BA at injection grade isn't that difficult, particularly within the EU.

To give an example, I picked some up from the Netherlands (injection grade, ph. Eur, USP), and it was simple to locate through whichever search engine you prefer.

Their smallest bottles are 100ml, and they go up to 25 litres

So I got my BA from them (the 100ml bottle will probably outlast me, or at minimum 2-3 years before oxidation sets in, at which point I'll simply buy a replacement), and I used sterile injection water (which is also easy to get in Germany) to mix my own BAC water, costing me next to nothing.

Every reconstitution came out perfectly clear and held up for weeks at a time without any issues.

How do you go about it? Do you think the result stays sterile?

In Germany, finding BAC is getting tougher all the time. That's why I'm weighing two options: plain sterile water, or mixing in BA on my own. Still, that second route strikes me as a bit dicey? Ha, I can't decide.

The way I do it: start with sterile water meant for injection plus BA that's ph.Eur/USP injection grade.

The sterile injection water I use is simple to find around here. It's sold in boxes of 20 bottles, in sizes like 10, 20, 50, 100ml and so on. I go for the 20ml or larger ones since those come as glass bottles, whereas the 10ml size is plastic ampules — and 10ml isn't much anyway. As an example, the product I currently use (I'm not sure whether naming brands is permitted here, since my posts keep getting rejected) runs about 6 Euro for a pack of 20x20ml, and you can get it from plenty of physical and online pharmacies in Germany (and therefore across the EU).

The BA comes from lab suppliers in the Netherlands. The smallest bottle available there is 100ml (iirc), though anything around 20-50ml will do the trick and will last you forever (or at least 2 years, until the BA in an opened bottle begins to oxidize and loses effectiveness. After roughly 2 years, you just order a fresh one.

Next, take a sterile insulin syringe of the kind you'd use for reconning, and draw up an amount of BA equal to 0.9-1% of your bottle of sterile injection water (for instance, 1ml of BA into a 100ml water bottle, 0.45-0.5ml of BA into a 50ml bottle, and so on.

There's no need to be super precise about the BA amount — people use anywhere from 0.8% to 1.8% of BA and do just fine. On top of that, branded BAC waters also differ in BA content `by as much as 0.2% or more from batch to batch, so there's no difference there.

After you've drawn the right amount of BA into your syringe, inject it into the sterile water and shake it around for a while so the BA gets spread through it. That's all there is to it — you've now got selfmade BAC for basically pennies

As I mentioned above, source your ph.Eur grade BA from the Netherlands (or elsewhere, since that's obviously not the only place), and the smallest bottle of 20, 50 or 100ml will last you years

It's no less sterile than, say, reconning and filling cartridges for injection pens such as V1s, V2s, Savvio, GensulinPen2, Novo...

 

[Sid the SeaGull]

It's a bit intriguing — how sterile the result actually is could be an issue, though at least that's a factor within your own hands.

Has getting yours tested ever crossed your mind? Seeing some sort of comparison between your DIY BAC blend and Hospita would be quite interesting.

 

[BasharTeg]

Sid the SeaGull said:

It's a bit intriguing — how sterile the result actually is could be an issue, though at least that's a factor within your own hands.

Has getting yours tested ever crossed your mind? Seeing some sort of comparison between your DIY BAC blend and Hospita would be quite interesting.

For my part, I check the pH using test strips (the ones that are reasonably precise, covering 4-9 and 4-7 ranges in 0.25 increments), and every time it comes out at 5.75 — which is basically exactly where it should be, at least for the peptides people use most often.

Real lab testing isn't something I intend to pursue, for the simple reason that reconstituting with my own water has never given me any trouble at all

On top of that, I've never seen bacteria appear in any vial I've reconstituted, even when it sat around and was used for longer than 7 weeks — that means I drew from those vials at least 7-8 times over those 7 weeks. Drawing out obviously isn't 100% sterile, even with the effort of swabbing the tops, and realistically there's no way around that, so the BA in my water clearly did exactly what it's supposed to do

 

[MisterM.]

@BasharTeg

Hi im also from Germany, nice to see here People from the same Region. I have now also the same Issue my last BAC is now used and i need replenishment.

I have used 2 times China BAC for a test with Tirz but both times i got heavy Side Effects(Heart Racing/feeling sick ect.) from someone. I will exclude that it depends on the BAC Water.

For this Reason i ordered Saline NaCL Injectionwater? Any Reason why you didn´t use it? And what will be the better Solution NaCL oder Ampuwa with BA for rec. of Tirz?

 

[BasharTeg]

MisterM. said:

@BasharTeg

Hi im also from Germany, nice to see here People from the same Region. I have now also the same Issue my last BAC is now used and i need replenishment.

I have used 2 times China BAC for a test with Tirz but both times i got heavy Side Effects(Heart Racing/feeling sick ect.) from someone. I will exclude that it depends on the BAC Water.

For this Reason i ordered Saline NaCL Injectionwater? Any Reason why you didn´t use it? And what will be the better Solution NaCL oder Ampuwa with BA for rec. of Tirz?

NaCl water is neither necessary nor advisable when you're reconstituting peptides.

Either it will interact with the buffer components left over from lyophilization, or it will interact with the peptides themselves once you try to recon them.

Take Reta as an example: chances are it will react with Sodium (in German: Natrium) and end up degraded — meaning reduced potency, or possibly no potency at all. Other peptides might turn gelatinous, clump together (form "floaties"), go "cloudy", or show any mix of those unwanted outcomes. In my view, the sneaky adverse effects — where there are no floaties, no jelly, no cloudiness, but the peptide is simply weaker or fully neutralized — are actually the worst, since nothing visible or testable reveals it, apart from the fact that it then does less or nothing when you inject it (and that isn't always simple to judge).

The acidic residues in the buffer of a lyophilized peptide will react with salts (and yes, NaCl is a salt), undergoing hydrolysis of those residues, which would leave many peptides ineffective because their cell signaling mechanisms get damaged.

Clearly, none of that is something you'd want

Simply reach for Ampuwa or another sterile injection grade water, add BA, and you'll be fine

Edit: True, certain peptides from certain batches may show zero — or barely any — noticeable or obvious effects when NaCl is used for reconning. But why take that gamble, when NaCl contributes literally nothing, while both BA and sterile injection water are easy to get and cost next to nothing?

Beyond making your own BAC water, what's left is to pick something proven and branded, such as Hospira or Lambda BAC water. Everything else amounts to a lottery and a gamble — one you're bound to lose most of the time.

 

[cat_walk]

Hey, I'm in France. For the past 3 months I've been mixing my own BAC. I use it when reconstituting tirze, reta, klow and nad+.

No problems up to now. That constant "where on earth can I find Hospira" stress is gone.

 

[AlexSilver]

BasharTeg said:

MisterM. said:

@BasharTeg

Hi im also from Germany, nice to see here People from the same Region. I have now also the same Issue my last BAC is now used and i need replenishment.

I have used 2 times China BAC for a test with Tirz but both times i got heavy Side Effects(Heart Racing/feeling sick ect.) from someone. I will exclude that it depends on the BAC Water.

For this Reason i ordered Saline NaCL Injectionwater? Any Reason why you didn´t use it? And what will be the better Solution NaCL oder Ampuwa with BA for rec. of Tirz?

NaCl water is neither necessary nor advisable when you're reconstituting peptides.

Either it will interact with the buffer components left over from lyophilization, or it will interact with the peptides themselves once you try to recon them.

Take Reta as an example: chances are it will react with Sodium (in German: Natrium) and end up degraded — meaning reduced potency, or possibly no potency at all. Other peptides might turn gelatinous, clump together (form "floaties"), go "cloudy", or show any mix of those unwanted outcomes. In my view, the sneaky adverse effects — where there are no floaties, no jelly, no cloudiness, but the peptide is simply weaker or fully neutralized — are actually the worst, since nothing visible or testable reveals it, apart from the fact that it then does less or nothing when you inject it (and that isn't always simple to judge).

The acidic residues in the buffer of a lyophilized peptide will react with salts (and yes, NaCl is a salt), undergoing hydrolysis of those residues, which would leave many peptides ineffective because their cell signaling mechanisms get damaged.

Clearly, none of that is something you'd want

Simply reach for Ampuwa or another sterile injection grade water, add BA, and you'll be fine

Edit: True, certain peptides from certain batches may show zero — or barely any — noticeable or obvious effects when NaCl is used for reconning. But why take that gamble, when NaCl contributes literally nothing, while both BA and sterile injection water are easy to get and cost next to nothing?

Beyond making your own BAC water, what's left is to pick something proven and branded, such as Hospira or Lambda BAC water. Everything else amounts to a lottery and a gamble — one you're bound to lose most of the time.

That's not right. For reconstituting Tirz, the solution people recommend is PBS. Chinese reps refer to it as "WA water," and monjourno pens straight from lily actually arrive already reconstituted with PBS (plus a bit of hcl to adjust the ph)

For Retatrutide, though, BAC water should always be used.

 

[BasharTeg]

AlexSilver said:

BasharTeg said:

MisterM. said:

@BasharTeg

Hi im also from Germany, nice to see here People from the same Region. I have now also the same Issue my last BAC is now used and i need replenishment.

I have used 2 times China BAC for a test with Tirz but both times i got heavy Side Effects(Heart Racing/feeling sick ect.) from someone. I will exclude that it depends on the BAC Water.

For this Reason i ordered Saline NaCL Injectionwater? Any Reason why you didn´t use it? And what will be the better Solution NaCL oder Ampuwa with BA for rec. of Tirz?

NaCl water is neither necessary nor advisable when you're reconstituting peptides.

Either it will interact with the buffer components left over from lyophilization, or it will interact with the peptides themselves once you try to recon them.

Take Reta as an example: chances are it will react with Sodium (in German: Natrium) and end up degraded — meaning reduced potency, or possibly no potency at all. Other peptides might turn gelatinous, clump together (form "floaties"), go "cloudy", or show any mix of those unwanted outcomes. In my view, the sneaky adverse effects — where there are no floaties, no jelly, no cloudiness, but the peptide is simply weaker or fully neutralized — are actually the worst, since nothing visible or testable reveals it, apart from the fact that it then does less or nothing when you inject it (and that isn't always simple to judge).

The acidic residues in the buffer of a lyophilized peptide will react with salts (and yes, NaCl is a salt), undergoing hydrolysis of those residues, which would leave many peptides ineffective because their cell signaling mechanisms get damaged.

Clearly, none of that is something you'd want

Simply reach for Ampuwa or another sterile injection grade water, add BA, and you'll be fine

Edit: True, certain peptides from certain batches may show zero — or barely any — noticeable or obvious effects when NaCl is used for reconning. But why take that gamble, when NaCl contributes literally nothing, while both BA and sterile injection water are easy to get and cost next to nothing?

Beyond making your own BAC water, what's left is to pick something proven and branded, such as Hospira or Lambda BAC water. Everything else amounts to a lottery and a gamble — one you're bound to lose most of the time.

That's not right. For reconstituting Tirz, the solution people recommend is PBS. Chinese reps refer to it as "WA water," and monjourno pens straight from lily actually arrive already reconstituted with PBS (plus a bit of hcl to adjust the ph)





View attachment 11266

For Retatrutide, though, BAC water should always be used.

Like I already mentioned, no two peptides behave the same way, and each one reacts differently.

On top of that, the example I gave was Reta, not Tirz. Salts will almost certainly react with Reta. Tirz likely does as well, but the precise mechanism and the amount, I can't say. And salts aren't all identical either — each type will act differently depending on the peptide, the buffer, leftover residue in the buffer, the batch, and so forth. Some might be fine, others might not. Figuring out which one causes which effect is really difficult. Run a thorough peer reviewed study on it, and you could probably get a handful of papers published

Beyond that, Tirz certainly doesn't have to be dissolved in PBS (and PBS isn't the same thing as NaCl water anyway), though it can be. That said, it reconstitutes just fine in ordinary sterile injection water too (with or without BA), so what does PBS actually improve when it comes to reconning Tirz?

If the sterile water you're reconning with has a pH that's too low (meaning too acidic), a small amount of PBS solution might help raise the pH. But what does that have to do with NaCl water?

Also, the reconned solution inside official MJ pens has far more in it than just water, a bit of PBS and Tirz — it's packed with all sorts of preservatives plus plenty of other proprietary ingredients, so it can stay viable for months and years once reconned in a pen...

But like always, anybody and everybody is free to do whatever they believe in and/or whatever they find works for them, so YMMV

 

[AlexSilver]

BasharTeg said:

AlexSilver said:

BasharTeg said:

MisterM. said:

@BasharTeg

Hi im also from Germany, nice to see here People from the same Region. I have now also the same Issue my last BAC is now used and i need replenishment.

I have used 2 times China BAC for a test with Tirz but both times i got heavy Side Effects(Heart Racing/feeling sick ect.) from someone. I will exclude that it depends on the BAC Water.

For this Reason i ordered Saline NaCL Injectionwater? Any Reason why you didn´t use it? And what will be the better Solution NaCL oder Ampuwa with BA for rec. of Tirz?

NaCl water is neither necessary nor advisable when you're reconstituting peptides.

Either it will interact with the buffer components left over from lyophilization, or it will interact with the peptides themselves once you try to recon them.

Take Reta as an example: chances are it will react with Sodium (in German: Natrium) and end up degraded — meaning reduced potency, or possibly no potency at all. Other peptides might turn gelatinous, clump together (form "floaties"), go "cloudy", or show any mix of those unwanted outcomes. In my view, the sneaky adverse effects — where there are no floaties, no jelly, no cloudiness, but the peptide is simply weaker or fully neutralized — are actually the worst, since nothing visible or testable reveals it, apart from the fact that it then does less or nothing when you inject it (and that isn't always simple to judge).

The acidic residues in the buffer of a lyophilized peptide will react with salts (and yes, NaCl is a salt), undergoing hydrolysis of those residues, which would leave many peptides ineffective because their cell signaling mechanisms get damaged.

Clearly, none of that is something you'd want

Simply reach for Ampuwa or another sterile injection grade water, add BA, and you'll be fine

Edit: True, certain peptides from certain batches may show zero — or barely any — noticeable or obvious effects when NaCl is used for reconning. But why take that gamble, when NaCl contributes literally nothing, while both BA and sterile injection water are easy to get and cost next to nothing?

Beyond making your own BAC water, what's left is to pick something proven and branded, such as Hospira or Lambda BAC water. Everything else amounts to a lottery and a gamble — one you're bound to lose most of the time.

That's not right. For reconstituting Tirz, the solution people recommend is PBS. Chinese reps refer to it as "WA water," and monjourno pens straight from lily actually arrive already reconstituted with PBS (plus a bit of hcl to adjust the ph)





View attachment 11266

For Retatrutide, though, BAC water should always be used.

Like I already mentioned, no two peptides behave the same way, and each one reacts differently.

On top of that, the example I gave was Reta, not Tirz. Salts will almost certainly react with Reta. Tirz likely does as well, but the precise mechanism and the amount, I can't say. And salts aren't all identical either — each type will act differently depending on the peptide, the buffer, leftover residue in the buffer, the batch, and so forth. Some might be fine, others might not. Figuring out which one causes which effect is really difficult. Run a thorough peer reviewed study on it, and you could probably get a handful of papers published

Beyond that, Tirz certainly doesn't have to be dissolved in PBS (and PBS isn't the same thing as NaCl water anyway), though it can be. That said, it reconstitutes just fine in ordinary sterile injection water too (with or without BA), so what does PBS actually improve when it comes to reconning Tirz?

If the sterile water you're reconning with has a pH that's too low (meaning too acidic), a small amount of PBS solution might help raise the pH. But what does that have to do with NaCl water?

Also, the reconned solution inside official MJ pens has far more in it than just water, a bit of PBS and Tirz — it's packed with all sorts of preservatives plus plenty of other proprietary ingredients, so it can stay viable for months and years once reconned in a pen...

But like always, anybody and everybody is free to do whatever they believe in and/or whatever they find works for them, so YMMV

PBS stands for Phosphate Buffered Saline, which means NaCl combined with a buffering agent, sodium phosphate dibasic heptahydrate.

 

[MisterM.]

I'm kind of lost at this point. From what I gathered, Janoshik suggested using NaCL over in Europe when you need to reconstitute peptides. In that video of his, didn't he say it works well as a substitute for BAC Water, since BAC Water is harder to source in Europe and costs more?

 

[Vash]

JulezZ said:

Hey everyone! It drives me up the wall that pharmacies won't simply sell bac water over the counter. Seriously, what's the reasoning behind that?!

So I've been thinking: pick up sterile water for injection, then draw benzyl alcohol into a sterile syringe and mix it in. On paper it seems like something I could pull off.

Has anybody here actually tried this? Or can someone tell me why it would be a terrible plan?

I’ve considered going that route, but ordering it by the bottle online costs next to nothing. On top of that, you’d probably be stuck brewing up big batches that would do nothing but collect dust. A single 30ml bottle already covers way more than I go through. And I happen to be running four different peps.

 

[anhydrous]

MisterM. said:

I'm kind of lost at this point. From what I gathered, Janoshik suggested using NaCL over in Europe when you need to reconstitute peptides. In that video of his, didn't he say it works well as a substitute for BAC Water, since BAC Water is harder to source in Europe and costs more?

When it comes to picking between sodium chloride injection and sterile water for injection, my preference would be the sodium chloride option, since it's isotonic. That said, you really need to understand the process, because it doesn't mix well with some medications, including CNS and cardiovascular agents.

 

[dazedconfused_]

MisterM. said:

I'm kind of lost at this point. From what I gathered, Janoshik suggested using NaCL over in Europe when you need to reconstitute peptides. In that video of his, didn't he say it works well as a substitute for BAC Water, since BAC Water is harder to source in Europe and costs more?

Didn't he say sterile water is the one that's okay, rather than NaCl?

If that's the case, then you could simply put in some BA and it's ready to use.

 

[UncrossSelector]

Sid the SeaGull said:

It's a bit intriguing — how sterile the result actually is could be an issue, though at least that's a factor within your own hands.

Has getting yours tested ever crossed your mind? Seeing some sort of comparison between your DIY BAC blend and Hospita would be quite interesting.

My approach is not the same.

First, sterile water goes into the peptide vial. After that, using a new syringe, I put in a small amount of bac. (Naturally, this is calculated.)

I take the 10ml ampoules of water and discard the remainder.

This keeps me from the danger of mixing a poor batch of BAC and then drawing from it for a lot of vials.

Still, I only go to this trouble if Hospira is unavailable.

 

[ESSO88]

Is this something specific to the EU? In AUS, BAC is easy to buy online — you can even find it on Amazon