There is just less quality control with the water on the manufacturers end. Plus they really dont make money from it. QSC and other companies used to ship it free with any peps. I do think if there truly are hospira shortages or crackdowns they might start selling water as a real product.
Dedicated Hospira Bac Water Updates
- Thread starter RicFlair
- Start date
Jerrey
Explorer
I guarantee you if they Crack down on bac water the vendors will ramp up production. As soon as they see enough return on the investment to produce it and justify the potential risk they face they will be selling it also.
timj382
Explorer
You really helped me out with this. Snagged five. THANK YOU.
HereKittyKitty
Explorer
Hasn't their pricing just continued to climb over the span of a year or so?
Demand spikes are not year-long. With the rise in Telehealth programs and on-going compounding, this is market growth. The largest expense to expand production is most likely labor which could have been addressed by now.
This is monopolistic control of the market.
5byfive
Explorer
It isn't going to happen quickly but it will happen. Prices stay high too long and competitors will enter the market and Pfiser doesn't want that. They do want to make sure there is a sustained demand; they don't want to ramp up and have demand drop. Right now, a bunch of that demand is coming from people stocking up. Just like toilet paper during COVID, prices won't stay up forever. I guarantee Pfiser has a good understanding of basic economic theory.
Mr. Blonde
Explorer
Yo, good looking out!
Supply: I don't think labor or marginal cost is the issue. I think creating a new production line (or whole new factory) that's adequately sterile is quite expensive for an item that must remain cheap.
Demand: I can't for the life of me figure out what the legitimate use of bacteriostatic water is, but it seems to only be used in United States hospitals -- where EVERYTHING is single-use and immediately disposable. Making it the last place on earth where multi-draw vials would be the norm. Globally, and especially in poorer countries where volume-based cost-savings are more necessary, single-draw is the recommended protocol, or at least single-patient from multi-draw. If Pfizer jacks the price up on bac too much, protocol in hospital systems will possibly shift to single-draw always, even if it means discarding unused left-over medication in the vial.
Medical professionals in the USA (and Canada?) --> just what exactly is bac water used for in hospitals, and why? And what would the alternative be?
Bonus question for medical professionals --> if a doctor were to write a Rx for bac water to be used in a home setting, what medication(s) would it (plausibly) be used to reconstitute?
Demand: I can't for the life of me figure out what the legitimate use of bacteriostatic water is, but it seems to only be used in United States hospitals -- where EVERYTHING is single-use and immediately disposable. Making it the last place on earth where multi-draw vials would be the norm. Globally, and especially in poorer countries where volume-based cost-savings are more necessary, single-draw is the recommended protocol, or at least single-patient from multi-draw. If Pfizer jacks the price up on bac too much, protocol in hospital systems will possibly shift to single-draw always, even if it means discarding unused left-over medication in the vial.
Medical professionals in the USA (and Canada?) --> just what exactly is bac water used for in hospitals, and why? And what would the alternative be?
Bonus question for medical professionals --> if a doctor were to write a Rx for bac water to be used in a home setting, what medication(s) would it (plausibly) be used to reconstitute?
TazaTaza
Explorer
Pfizer has private contracts with hospitals, facilities, and Group Promotion Vendors, this artificial price increase probably isn't affecting these medical facilities. I've known ppl who worked in procurement and the MSRP we see online isn't what medical facilities are paying especially when they're buying in the range of pallets over the year etc. or even multi-year deals at the negotiated price.
This artificial price increase in Hos, needing a license/Rx to obtain water + nuking waters on websites like Amazon is a direct hit to the grey space. The increase in demand is from the grey space not their target demographic so Pfizer isn't responding. If anything they are simply restricting access to those who aren't supposed to get it.
This is not a normal economic situation. I would guess economic theory behind black market activity would be ppl trying dangerous methods (like ppl are seriously making their own bac water....) when the easier routes become too expensive or accessibility is restricted.
This is what I see behind license paywalls...other medical sites hide their pricing you have to log in, I was lucky to see this. I'm guessing the one on the right is to price gouge suckers who didn't pay attention to click the one on the left lol.
Pep_Hobbyist
Explorer
Sooo you're saying you're willing to help a fellow researcher out?
BNLFL
Explorer
One says $25 EA (each) and the other is for 25 bottles/case for $241.30.
TazaTaza
Explorer
No, it's 25 each in a pack. It has the same MFG # corresponding to a 25 pack case. I know it's a hard to believe, but yeah through legitimate channels w/correct credentials you can get a case of Hos for < $100 shipped.
Another posting I saw with the same MFG # which is similar to a SKU (so it corresponds to 25 vial/case of H water):
Another screenshot of them hiding the "real" price behind a credential paywall, set it at $1k have to log in to see the Rx professional price so yeah it's pretty wild to see the stark difference.
I found a super sketchy website that shows this, but I'm sure it's stuck in 2008. It would be crazy if they were legit/not some defunct website.:
Super sketchy but yeah I wish I knew someone w/a license to see if it would actually go through tho.
I paid Amsco $3.25 per vial in early 2025, and with $10 shipping plus $5 "fuel charge" (?). No credentials or Rx.
Is your earlier example Farris Labs? Does anyone know how particular they are about credentials & sales volume to open an account?
latviantower
Explorer
I love that $3.25@ price! (Wonder if I could get my MD daughter’s DEA number????)
FWIW, currently waiting for tracking on a Pfizer direct gb, with admin and shipping it was $8@.
I placed my order on April 4th. Did I mention we’re still waiting?
FWIW, currently waiting for tracking on a Pfizer direct gb, with admin and shipping it was $8@.
I placed my order on April 4th. Did I mention we’re still waiting?
TazaTaza
Explorer
No, it wasn't Farris Labs, it was a website for professional healthcare workers to buy stuff from there. You need a Rx/license to even make an account, and has all types of restricted stuff on there including schedule II drugs.
But yeah $3.25 is a pipedream nowadays unless you have a direct medical credentials plug like it's easier to just ask your healthcare friends to slide you some on the side. It's plentiful at medical facilities.
That's a good Direct GB, if you can what GB was this? Or speak in code or hieroglyphics
From groups I've been in their H water GBs keep getting delayed. I heard the earliest ship date is mid-June and some Group Promotion Vendors are "allowing for cancellations" if ppl don't want to wait another month. In my opinion Fyzer vaguely is not prioritizing these GBs over verified/legitimate healthcare channels who place orders. It's interesting to see these GBs get delayed again and again yet some sites/resellers are still getting regular shipments to restock lol.
This cannot be the same company who figured out a cold supply chain for the C19 vax to be at every pharmacy in no time vs struggling to get water around. It has to be on purpose at this point.
TazaTaza
Explorer
Amazon took off Bac Water not bc they care about the legal issues of being sued. I fully believe Amazon is developing Amazon Essentials Water and it will be launched soon. Amazon is betting on the GLP space and they did a huge step w/the medical pharmacy offering oral GLPs with same day delivery for $150 a month. This is just Phase 1 the beginning.
I'm waiting to see is Amazon will offer the pens for a crazy low price. I would not be surprised if L*lly collabed with Amazon so everyone can get R to their door same day when it's FDA approved.
RaveBaddie
Explorer
As a European I am amazed about the crazy chaos that's going on with acquiring Hospira BAC water.
Why don't more US people just make it themselves with normal 'sterile water for injection' with BRAUN/Ampuwa 50ml glass bottles and 'Benzylalcohol USP'?
You mix it yourself, you know it's sterile and what percentage BA is in it.
And it is so much cheaper!
I really don't understand the need for Hospira...
Why don't more US people just make it themselves with normal 'sterile water for injection' with BRAUN/Ampuwa 50ml glass bottles and 'Benzylalcohol USP'?
You mix it yourself, you know it's sterile and what percentage BA is in it.
And it is so much cheaper!
I really don't understand the need for Hospira...
eidos
Explorer
Have you ever used laboratoriumdiscounter.nl as a supplier? If not, do you have a better address?
TazaTaza
Explorer
I would rather risk it with vendor bac since it's still sterile, I haven't seen a a test of them failing sterility so there's that. Or even pharma grade sterile water for inj.
I don't think ppl are comfortable with homebrew water, that is the majority of your pinning solution.
And no making your own bac on your dining room table is not sterile, and will never be sterile. You can use aseptic technique to minimize contamination but no it's nowhere near pharma grade sterile water/sterile BAC water.
I wouldn't even recommend ppl to transfer sterile water into glass bottle, if ppl have sterile water directly put the BA in there and leave it alone. Less steps mean less points of failure.
EDIT: Also I don't understand the H water or go homebrew mindset. There are still reputable ways to get BAC water that's not H like through US resellers or groups w/tested water. I don't understand the all or nothing mindset.