Combining SS-31 with MOTS-C rather than prior use…

[Commander]

MOTS-C at 1.3mg daily has been my routine for 5 weeks, and the results have been excellent. SS-31 was never part of my routine before starting MOTS-C.

I’m considering adding it alongside my MOTS-C. Could the two be used together, or would I have to pause MOTS-C, run SS-31 for 4-5 weeks, and then return to MOTS-C? Any input?

 

[Beardboost]

There is no single recommended protocol — there are several. If your habits have been poor for a long time, SS-31 is typically suggested first to support the microconidia prior to adding MOTS-C; after that you can “run the engine” using MOTS-C and NAD+. In certain situations, if you are already healthy, there is no evidence against running SS-31 and MOTS-C together. For the majority, the order is SS-31 first, then MOTS-C, and SS-31 can be used again during breaks from a MOTS-c cycle. My recommendation would be to run it every two MOTS-C cycles.

What I would suggest:

NAD+ starting from day one (continuous use is fine)

x10 vials 10mg SS31 - 5mg per day for 20 days

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

Then repeat SS31 during the Mots-c cycle break

So you are cycling SS31 every 2 Mots-c cycles

This can be approached in many ways and opinions differ from person to person, but this is my personal guide, which could be adjusted in various ways to fit you

 

[Grrrem]

At first I followed the approach where SS-31 and NAD+ come before everything else, and I held off on adding Mots-c. Then I came across a video suggesting they can be run simultaneously, so I changed course. These days I take both at once, and the combination seems to give me more energy during gym sessions.

Here is the video:

View: https://youtu.be/Arx8CD6TA0Y?si=e2Wltp9Rk7Fl9GXM



Just to mention it, I am not a fan of NAD+ and I am considering stopping it.

 

[Commander]

Beardboost said:

There is no single recommended protocol — there are several. If your habits have been poor for a long time, SS-31 is typically suggested first to support the microconidia prior to adding MOTS-C; after that you can “run the engine” using MOTS-C and NAD+. In certain situations, if you are already healthy, there is no evidence against running SS-31 and MOTS-C together. For the majority, the order is SS-31 first, then MOTS-C, and SS-31 can be used again during breaks from a MOTS-c cycle. My recommendation would be to run it every two MOTS-C cycles.

What I would suggest:

NAD+ starting from day one (continuous use is fine)

x10 vials 10mg SS31 - 5mg per day for 20 days

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

Then repeat SS31 during the Mots-c cycle break

So you are cycling SS31 every 2 Mots-c cycles

This can be approached in many ways and opinions differ from person to person, but this is my personal guide, which could be adjusted in various ways to fit you

The x10, x8 and similar labels are unclear to me.

When you say x10 10mg SS-31 - 5mg per day for 20 days, what is meant? The part about 5mg of SS-31 daily for 20 days makes sense, but what role does the x10 play?

 

[Commander]

Grrrem said:

At first I followed the approach where SS-31 and NAD+ come before everything else, and I held off on adding Mots-c. Then I came across a video suggesting they can be run simultaneously, so I changed course. These days I take both at once, and the combination seems to give me more energy during gym sessions.

Here is the video:

View: https://youtu.be/Arx8CD6TA0Y?si=e2Wltp9Rk7Fl9GXM



Just to mention it, I am not a fan of NAD+ and I am considering stopping it.

What is it about the NAD+ that you dislike?

 

[lessthanhalf]

Whatever people put in their stacks is pure invention. When it comes to combining or sequencing these peptides, there is no scientific literature at all.

SS-31 holds approval for Barth syndrome, a genetic mitochondrial disorder. It has gone through a handful of human trials for other indications, yet those results were mostly underwhelming, and development for broader uses was largely abandoned. Outside of animal work, I know of no ongoing drug programs for it beyond Barth syndrome.

Mots-c, or CB4211, a close relative, has completed 1 phase 1 trial and is expected to enter a phase 2 trial for fatty liver disease. That covers the entire human trial record.

For each peptide, there are assorted mouse and cell studies with intriguing findings. Still, fewer than 1 in 10 promising drugs succeed in human clinical trials, so assuming cell or animal results will translate to people is neither safe nor reasonable, given that less than 1 in 10 figure. To my knowledge, no cell or animal data supports using them together or in sequence either.

At some point, someone clearly dreamed up a rationale for that sequence, and it makes a compelling tale for selling peptides, but it carries no scientific weight.

Both peptides do produce genuine biological effects. SS-31, I believe, has been tested enough to show it fails at the hoped-for goals, such as treating heart failure, though it caused no harm in those trials.

Mots-c sounds even more promising, behaving like exercise in a pill for mice, but 1 phase 1 study on liver disease does not remotely establish human safety or the same metabolic advantages seen in mice. There is a slim possibility it will one day be proven safe and effective, but many hurdles remain, and a drug company would need to judge it worthy of millions in trial spending. One company apparently thinks so for fatty liver and is pursuing development, yet even those trials will not demonstrate benefits for other conditions.

 

[Commander]

lessthanhalf said:

Whatever people put in their stacks is pure invention. When it comes to combining or sequencing these peptides, there is no scientific literature at all.

SS-31 holds approval for Barth syndrome, a genetic mitochondrial disorder. It has gone through a handful of human trials for other indications, yet those results were mostly underwhelming, and development for broader uses was largely abandoned. Outside of animal work, I know of no ongoing drug programs for it beyond Barth syndrome.

Mots-c, or CB4211, a close relative, has completed 1 phase 1 trial and is expected to enter a phase 2 trial for fatty liver disease. That covers the entire human trial record.

For each peptide, there are assorted mouse and cell studies with intriguing findings. Still, fewer than 1 in 10 promising drugs succeed in human clinical trials, so assuming cell or animal results will translate to people is neither safe nor reasonable, given that less than 1 in 10 figure. To my knowledge, no cell or animal data supports using them together or in sequence either.

At some point, someone clearly dreamed up a rationale for that sequence, and it makes a compelling tale for selling peptides, but it carries no scientific weight.

Both peptides do produce genuine biological effects. SS-31, I believe, has been tested enough to show it fails at the hoped-for goals, such as treating heart failure, though it caused no harm in those trials.

Mots-c sounds even more promising, behaving like exercise in a pill for mice, but 1 phase 1 study on liver disease does not remotely establish human safety or the same metabolic advantages seen in mice. There is a slim possibility it will one day be proven safe and effective, but many hurdles remain, and a drug company would need to judge it worthy of millions in trial spending. One company apparently thinks so for fatty liver and is pursuing development, yet even those trials will not demonstrate benefits for other conditions.

I appreciate it. I realize this is largely a gamble. Trying some SS-31 probably won't do any harm. MOTS-C has been giving me excellent results. It has transformed my life…

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

Commander said:

Beardboost said:

There is no single recommended protocol — there are several. If your habits have been poor for a long time, SS-31 is typically suggested first to support the microconidia prior to adding MOTS-C; after that you can “run the engine” using MOTS-C and NAD+. In certain situations, if you are already healthy, there is no evidence against running SS-31 and MOTS-C together. For the majority, the order is SS-31 first, then MOTS-C, and SS-31 can be used again during breaks from a MOTS-c cycle. My recommendation would be to run it every two MOTS-C cycles.

What I would suggest:

NAD+ starting from day one (continuous use is fine)

x10 vials 10mg SS31 - 5mg per day for 20 days

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

Then repeat SS31 during the Mots-c cycle break

So you are cycling SS31 every 2 Mots-c cycles

This can be approached in many ways and opinions differ from person to person, but this is my personal guide, which could be adjusted in various ways to fit you

The x10, x8 and similar labels are unclear to me.

When you say x10 10mg SS-31 - 5mg per day for 20 days, what is meant? The part about 5mg of SS-31 daily for 20 days makes sense, but what role does the x10 play?

The kit contains 10 vials, each holding 10mg of Ss-31. To begin, the protocol calls for using the entire kit of SS-31 10 mg.

 

[Commander]

Ah, got it - thanks! That clears things up…

 

[Jittrbug]

Commander said:

lessthanhalf said:

Whatever people put in their stacks is pure invention. When it comes to combining or sequencing these peptides, there is no scientific literature at all.

SS-31 holds approval for Barth syndrome, a genetic mitochondrial disorder. It has gone through a handful of human trials for other indications, yet those results were mostly underwhelming, and development for broader uses was largely abandoned. Outside of animal work, I know of no ongoing drug programs for it beyond Barth syndrome.

Mots-c, or CB4211, a close relative, has completed 1 phase 1 trial and is expected to enter a phase 2 trial for fatty liver disease. That covers the entire human trial record.

For each peptide, there are assorted mouse and cell studies with intriguing findings. Still, fewer than 1 in 10 promising drugs succeed in human clinical trials, so assuming cell or animal results will translate to people is neither safe nor reasonable, given that less than 1 in 10 figure. To my knowledge, no cell or animal data supports using them together or in sequence either.

At some point, someone clearly dreamed up a rationale for that sequence, and it makes a compelling tale for selling peptides, but it carries no scientific weight.

Both peptides do produce genuine biological effects. SS-31, I believe, has been tested enough to show it fails at the hoped-for goals, such as treating heart failure, though it caused no harm in those trials.

Mots-c sounds even more promising, behaving like exercise in a pill for mice, but 1 phase 1 study on liver disease does not remotely establish human safety or the same metabolic advantages seen in mice. There is a slim possibility it will one day be proven safe and effective, but many hurdles remain, and a drug company would need to judge it worthy of millions in trial spending. One company apparently thinks so for fatty liver and is pursuing development, yet even those trials will not demonstrate benefits for other conditions.

I appreciate it. I realize this is largely a gamble. Trying some SS-31 probably won't do any harm. MOTS-C has been giving me excellent results. It has transformed my life…

I want to get a clearer picture of Mots-C. Could you go into more detail about the ways it has affected your life? Which benefits were you hoping to get, and what actually showed up once you started taking it?

 

[Commander]

Jittrbug said:

Commander said:

lessthanhalf said:

Whatever people put in their stacks is pure invention. When it comes to combining or sequencing these peptides, there is no scientific literature at all.

SS-31 holds approval for Barth syndrome, a genetic mitochondrial disorder. It has gone through a handful of human trials for other indications, yet those results were mostly underwhelming, and development for broader uses was largely abandoned. Outside of animal work, I know of no ongoing drug programs for it beyond Barth syndrome.

Mots-c, or CB4211, a close relative, has completed 1 phase 1 trial and is expected to enter a phase 2 trial for fatty liver disease. That covers the entire human trial record.

For each peptide, there are assorted mouse and cell studies with intriguing findings. Still, fewer than 1 in 10 promising drugs succeed in human clinical trials, so assuming cell or animal results will translate to people is neither safe nor reasonable, given that less than 1 in 10 figure. To my knowledge, no cell or animal data supports using them together or in sequence either.

At some point, someone clearly dreamed up a rationale for that sequence, and it makes a compelling tale for selling peptides, but it carries no scientific weight.

Both peptides do produce genuine biological effects. SS-31, I believe, has been tested enough to show it fails at the hoped-for goals, such as treating heart failure, though it caused no harm in those trials.

Mots-c sounds even more promising, behaving like exercise in a pill for mice, but 1 phase 1 study on liver disease does not remotely establish human safety or the same metabolic advantages seen in mice. There is a slim possibility it will one day be proven safe and effective, but many hurdles remain, and a drug company would need to judge it worthy of millions in trial spending. One company apparently thinks so for fatty liver and is pursuing development, yet even those trials will not demonstrate benefits for other conditions.

I appreciate it. I realize this is largely a gamble. Trying some SS-31 probably won't do any harm. MOTS-C has been giving me excellent results. It has transformed my life…

I want to get a clearer picture of Mots-C. Could you go into more detail about the ways it has affected your life? Which benefits were you hoping to get, and what actually showed up once you started taking it?

Excessive daytime sleepiness was something I dealt with prior to beginning MOTS-C. My doctor put me on new Nuvigil as a treatment for it. The problem with Nuvigil was that after a few days of it working, my body adapted and the effect wore off. That meant I had to go without it for anywhere from a few days up to a week. Before I could take it again. So in essence, I was constantly fatigued and depleted. Since I began the MOTS-C, I no longer feel tired or run down. I have fully quit the Nuvigil since it is no longer necessary for me…

 

[Tcah2456]

Beardboost said:

There is no single recommended protocol — there are several. If your habits have been poor for a long time, SS-31 is typically suggested first to support the microconidia prior to adding MOTS-C; after that you can “run the engine” using MOTS-C and NAD+. In certain situations, if you are already healthy, there is no evidence against running SS-31 and MOTS-C together. For the majority, the order is SS-31 first, then MOTS-C, and SS-31 can be used again during breaks from a MOTS-c cycle. My recommendation would be to run it every two MOTS-C cycles.

What I would suggest:

NAD+ starting from day one (continuous use is fine)

x10 vials 10mg SS31 - 5mg per day for 20 days

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

x8 vials 10mg Mots-c - 3.3mg x3 days per week for 8 weeks - 4 week break

Then repeat SS31 during the Mots-c cycle break

So you are cycling SS31 every 2 Mots-c cycles

This can be approached in many ways and opinions differ from person to person, but this is my personal guide, which could be adjusted in various ways to fit you

Appreciate it — the way you structured that made it simple to follow, even while I'm hungover. Nice one