Can mots and ss31 be stacked?

[Socram1578]

My present regimen includes Reta, tb, bpc, cjc/ipa, and mots. For 1 month I've taken 1.5mg of mots pre-workout on weekdays, though now I'm considering whether a few months of ss31 would be worthwhile for mitochondrial repair. If I add the ss31 protocol, could I keep using mots as well, or would that simply be pointless?

 

[Shittersfull]

I take motsc, nad+, and ss31 as a combined stack. Honestly, I can't tell whether ss31 is doing anything for me. I dose ss31 while fasted, right before going to sleep. Then in the morning I take motsc and Nad+ while still fasted, ahead of a fasted training session. My workouts have been excellent.

 

[eidos]

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

 

[Socram1578]

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

 

[kenadams]

For me, the most effective mitochondrial fixes have come from fasting beyond 48 hours, HIIT, and eating carnivore.

I'm getting ready to experiment with SS 31 alongside Mots C, just to see whether I notice anything different.

Once I pushed my fast beyond the 48 hour point, my energy went through the roof. I actually completed 2 workouts and still felt like I had more in the tank.

After wrapping up my hit sessions, I feel fantastic.

On top of that.... Niacin (the flushing type), Acetyl l Carnitine, and Creatine have made a difference too

 

[Builderman]

A mots-c kit is headed my way as we speak. As of now, I don’t intend to add any ss-31 either ahead of or alongside my mots run. What I’m wondering is: how might someone actually verify whether that step is needed?

The logic behind using ss-31 makes sense to me, but is there any blood panel available today that reflects mitochondrial condition - and if there is, which specific value would tell you that repair work is warranted?

 

[eidos]

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

Excess body weight can harm mitochondria, particularly through disruptions in lipids such as TAG and cholesterol. That makes it a reasonable thing to test.

Last week I began another MOTS-c cycle at 2.5 mg, and since yesterday I'm back at 5 mg. My caution came from how the prior cycle ended: a big, extremely sore lump. After moving to 0.9% NaCl, the injection-site reactions stopped.

For 2S31 I'm also at 5 mg. NaCl is the same here too, because the vials remain usable for only a few days. I pause for 2-3 days at a time, which has more to do with not wanting to haul out all the supplies to reconstitute than with any scientific rationale.

 

[Socram1578]

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

Excess body weight can harm mitochondria, particularly through disruptions in lipids such as TAG and cholesterol. That makes it a reasonable thing to test.

Last week I began another MOTS-c cycle at 2.5 mg, and since yesterday I'm back at 5 mg. My caution came from how the prior cycle ended: a big, extremely sore lump. After moving to 0.9% NaCl, the injection-site reactions stopped.

For 2S31 I'm also at 5 mg. NaCl is the same here too, because the vials remain usable for only a few days. I pause for 2-3 days at a time, which has more to do with not wanting to haul out all the supplies to reconstitute than with any scientific rationale.

So you're taking 5mg of both mots and ss31 every day?

 

[boomstar]

Gave 5mg of mots a shot, but there was no noticeable effect, so I figured I'd run a SS31 cycle instead.

For 20 days I took 5mg of SS31 each day, and honestly nothing seemed to change.

Now this week I'm going back to the mots to find out whether it feels any different.

 

[eidos]

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

Excess body weight can harm mitochondria, particularly through disruptions in lipids such as TAG and cholesterol. That makes it a reasonable thing to test.

Last week I began another MOTS-c cycle at 2.5 mg, and since yesterday I'm back at 5 mg. My caution came from how the prior cycle ended: a big, extremely sore lump. After moving to 0.9% NaCl, the injection-site reactions stopped.

For 2S31 I'm also at 5 mg. NaCl is the same here too, because the vials remain usable for only a few days. I pause for 2-3 days at a time, which has more to do with not wanting to haul out all the supplies to reconstitute than with any scientific rationale.

So you're taking 5mg of both mots and ss31 every day?

Yep, correct. I gave 10 mg a shot, though the effect isn't noticeably different—5 mg does the job for easing fatigue tied to diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

On top of that, I use 5 mg of 5AMQ daily. Since it helps me so much, I'm watching out not to become dependent on it.

 

[Socram1578]

boomstar said:

Gave 5mg of mots a shot, but there was no noticeable effect, so I figured I'd run a SS31 cycle instead.

For 20 days I took 5mg of SS31 each day, and honestly nothing seemed to change.

Now this week I'm going back to the mots to find out whether it feels any different.

That's precisely my plan. Let me know how it goes if you notice anything

 

[Socram1578]

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

Excess body weight can harm mitochondria, particularly through disruptions in lipids such as TAG and cholesterol. That makes it a reasonable thing to test.

Last week I began another MOTS-c cycle at 2.5 mg, and since yesterday I'm back at 5 mg. My caution came from how the prior cycle ended: a big, extremely sore lump. After moving to 0.9% NaCl, the injection-site reactions stopped.

For 2S31 I'm also at 5 mg. NaCl is the same here too, because the vials remain usable for only a few days. I pause for 2-3 days at a time, which has more to do with not wanting to haul out all the supplies to reconstitute than with any scientific rationale.

So you're taking 5mg of both mots and ss31 every day?

Yep, correct. I gave 10 mg a shot, though the effect isn't noticeably different—5 mg does the job for easing fatigue tied to diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

On top of that, I use 5 mg of 5AMQ daily. Since it helps me so much, I'm watching out not to become dependent on it.

I'm giving serious thought to raising my mots dose to 3 or 4 to test whether that changes anything, before I commit to the ss31. That said, I figure adding ss31 probably wouldn't do any harm either. How do you feel about using both at the same time?

 

[eidos]

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

Excess body weight can harm mitochondria, particularly through disruptions in lipids such as TAG and cholesterol. That makes it a reasonable thing to test.

Last week I began another MOTS-c cycle at 2.5 mg, and since yesterday I'm back at 5 mg. My caution came from how the prior cycle ended: a big, extremely sore lump. After moving to 0.9% NaCl, the injection-site reactions stopped.

For 2S31 I'm also at 5 mg. NaCl is the same here too, because the vials remain usable for only a few days. I pause for 2-3 days at a time, which has more to do with not wanting to haul out all the supplies to reconstitute than with any scientific rationale.

So you're taking 5mg of both mots and ss31 every day?

Yep, correct. I gave 10 mg a shot, though the effect isn't noticeably different—5 mg does the job for easing fatigue tied to diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

On top of that, I use 5 mg of 5AMQ daily. Since it helps me so much, I'm watching out not to become dependent on it.

I'm giving serious thought to raising my mots dose to 3 or 4 to test whether that changes anything, before I commit to the ss31. That said, I figure adding ss31 probably wouldn't do any harm either. How do you feel about using both at the same time?

My initial approach was 2S31 for a fortnight, after which I introduced MOTS-c.

Last month I ran another 3 weeks of 2S31 alone, and that's when I started picking up changes in my breathing plus roughly a 10 bpm reduction in heart rate while doing steady-state cardio.

At this moment, I'm running the two together.

As far as direct synergy goes, there's no real established connection between them. A mitochondrion may be tiny by our standards, but at the molecular level it's big, and the two compounds don't target the same processes.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

Socram1578 said:

eidos said:

No problemo.

If you don't have a metabolic disease or are under 50, 2S31 won't do much for you.

I'm 48, and aside from being overweight—though I'm losing it—I'm in decent health. Energy-wise, I don't notice any shortage. Perhaps I just need to adjust my mots dose gradually. How are you dosing your mots?

Excess body weight can harm mitochondria, particularly through disruptions in lipids such as TAG and cholesterol. That makes it a reasonable thing to test.

Last week I began another MOTS-c cycle at 2.5 mg, and since yesterday I'm back at 5 mg. My caution came from how the prior cycle ended: a big, extremely sore lump. After moving to 0.9% NaCl, the injection-site reactions stopped.

For 2S31 I'm also at 5 mg. NaCl is the same here too, because the vials remain usable for only a few days. I pause for 2-3 days at a time, which has more to do with not wanting to haul out all the supplies to reconstitute than with any scientific rationale.

So you're taking 5mg of both mots and ss31 every day?

Yep, correct. I gave 10 mg a shot, though the effect isn't noticeably different—5 mg does the job for easing fatigue tied to diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

On top of that, I use 5 mg of 5AMQ daily. Since it helps me so much, I'm watching out not to become dependent on it.

I'm giving serious thought to raising my mots dose to 3 or 4 to test whether that changes anything, before I commit to the ss31. That said, I figure adding ss31 probably wouldn't do any harm either. How do you feel about using both at the same time?

My initial approach was 2S31 for a fortnight, after which I introduced MOTS-c.

Last month I ran another 3 weeks of 2S31 alone, and that's when I started picking up changes in my breathing plus roughly a 10 bpm reduction in heart rate while doing steady-state cardio.

At this moment, I'm running the two together.

As far as direct synergy goes, there's no real established connection between them. A mitochondrion may be tiny by our standards, but at the molecular level it's big, and the two compounds don't target the same processes.

I've run this cycle on 2 separate occasions. Whether it was actually necessary is hard to say, but given my age and background, it seemed probable.

I partied through the 80s.. and yes.. the 90s as well...

Between that and getting older, I assumed I met the requirements.

How do you view the partying aspect?

Is ss31 useful for that, or is it something else entirely?

Here's what google returned:

Indeed, alcohol consumption and partying may inflict lasting harm on mitochondria. When alcohol is broken down, toxic compounds such as acetaldehyde are generated, and the strain of staying up late plus substance use causes a surge in reactive oxygen species. Over time this results in persistent oxidative stress, damage to mitochondrial DNA, and interference with how cells generate energy. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

 

[miameow]

Socram1578 said:

My present regimen includes Reta, tb, bpc, cjc/ipa, and mots. For 1 month I've taken 1.5mg of mots pre-workout on weekdays, though now I'm considering whether a few months of ss31 would be worthwhile for mitochondrial repair. If I add the ss31 protocol, could I keep using mots as well, or would that simply be pointless?

It wouldn't be pointless, but my own preference would be to avoid combining them during at least the opening few weeks. I'd begin with SS-31 by itself, which lets you judge whether it has any real effect. After both are being pinned, figuring out which compound is doing what gets a lot trickier.

Before I added MOTS-c, I completed a cycle of SS-31 on its own. At the moment I'm using MOTS-c by itself, so I've learned how each one feels in isolation and in combination, and that has helped my research.

 

[eidos]

@Skidude

There is some unfortunate information I need to share: the mitochondria you had back in the '80s no longer exist.

Because they multiply through division, a handful of remnants could theoretically remain, though I'm skeptical — fresh membranes would have replaced them.

To determine whether any researcher has looked into this, I would need to search through scientific papers. The sources you cited cover only the short-term effects; they say nothing about whether recuperation can occur following prolonged cessation.

Back in January 2023, biologists marked an achievement: half of a cell's contents are now understood. Plenty of discoveries remain ahead.

Should alcohol consumption have caused a beer belly or liver damage, addressing it is essential. Begin with antioxidants (all of them are beneficial; the article is around here somewhere...) and above all NAC. On days involving 2 glasses of wine, or when I use acetaminophen/paracetamol, I take roughly 2 g by mouth.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:

@Skidude

There is some unfortunate information I need to share: the mitochondria you had back in the '80s no longer exist.

Because they multiply through division, a handful of remnants could theoretically remain, though I'm skeptical — fresh membranes would have replaced them.

To determine whether any researcher has looked into this, I would need to search through scientific papers. The sources you cited cover only the short-term effects; they say nothing about whether recuperation can occur following prolonged cessation.

Back in January 2023, biologists marked an achievement: half of a cell's contents are now understood. Plenty of discoveries remain ahead.

Should alcohol consumption have caused a beer belly or liver damage, addressing it is essential. Begin with antioxidants (all of them are beneficial; the article is around here somewhere...) and above all NAC. On days involving 2 glasses of wine, or when I use acetaminophen/paracetamol, I take roughly 2 g by mouth.

The beer belly has largely disappeared, and taking NAC plus TMG every day also handled the Glutathione detox.

What really interests me is partying—not only alcohol—in terms of damage rather than aging. This isn't just about me, since my partying years are mostly behind me, but as a broad principle for mitochondrial repair benefits.

Fortunately the liver is in great shape, surprisingly so, and the bloodwork looks great too.

What do you think about mito damage that's self inflicted, and what ss31 could do for it?

 

[eidos]

Skidude said:

eidos said:

@Skidude

There is some unfortunate information I need to share: the mitochondria you had back in the '80s no longer exist.

Because they multiply through division, a handful of remnants could theoretically remain, though I'm skeptical — fresh membranes would have replaced them.

To determine whether any researcher has looked into this, I would need to search through scientific papers. The sources you cited cover only the short-term effects; they say nothing about whether recuperation can occur following prolonged cessation.

Back in January 2023, biologists marked an achievement: half of a cell's contents are now understood. Plenty of discoveries remain ahead.

Should alcohol consumption have caused a beer belly or liver damage, addressing it is essential. Begin with antioxidants (all of them are beneficial; the article is around here somewhere...) and above all NAC. On days involving 2 glasses of wine, or when I use acetaminophen/paracetamol, I take roughly 2 g by mouth.

The beer belly has largely disappeared, and taking NAC plus TMG every day also handled the Glutathione detox.

What really interests me is partying—not only alcohol—in terms of damage rather than aging. This isn't just about me, since my partying years are mostly behind me, but as a broad principle for mitochondrial repair benefits.

Fortunately the liver is in great shape, surprisingly so, and the bloodwork looks great too.

What do you think about mito damage that's self inflicted, and what ss31 could do for it?

Based on the limited information I've come across regarding SS31 (it's a quick read, not much out there ), the potential benefits include:

• enhancing how the respiratory chain links with ATP synthesis (ATP then fuels various reactions);
  
• lowering electron leakage and oxidative stress (which is why we use antioxidants);
  
• maintaining the structural integrity of mitochondrial cristae (these folds increase what can be “stored” within the mitochondrion, resulting in more energy-producing chains).

That said, when mitochondria are already working well, the improvements seen are less pronounced. From my own observations, it doesn't eliminate fatigue the way MOTS-c or 5AMQ do; it's not a stimulant for energy, just a slight enhancement in ventilation and a minor reduction in heart rate while exercising.

I believe it becomes worthwhile at a certain age, and even more so after shedding some pounds.

I began with a 10 mg kit; it's reasonably priced, and it let me evaluate its effects. I recently moved up to a 50 mg kit, which ought to last just over three months. My upcoming blood test will show whether oxidative stress has decreased, given all the injections I'm taking.

It's great to hear you've already achieved considerable progress.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:

Skidude said:

eidos said:

@Skidude

There is some unfortunate information I need to share: the mitochondria you had back in the '80s no longer exist.

Because they multiply through division, a handful of remnants could theoretically remain, though I'm skeptical — fresh membranes would have replaced them.

To determine whether any researcher has looked into this, I would need to search through scientific papers. The sources you cited cover only the short-term effects; they say nothing about whether recuperation can occur following prolonged cessation.

Back in January 2023, biologists marked an achievement: half of a cell's contents are now understood. Plenty of discoveries remain ahead.

Should alcohol consumption have caused a beer belly or liver damage, addressing it is essential. Begin with antioxidants (all of them are beneficial; the article is around here somewhere...) and above all NAC. On days involving 2 glasses of wine, or when I use acetaminophen/paracetamol, I take roughly 2 g by mouth.

The beer belly has largely disappeared, and taking NAC plus TMG every day also handled the Glutathione detox.

What really interests me is partying—not only alcohol—in terms of damage rather than aging. This isn't just about me, since my partying years are mostly behind me, but as a broad principle for mitochondrial repair benefits.

Fortunately the liver is in great shape, surprisingly so, and the bloodwork looks great too.

What do you think about mito damage that's self inflicted, and what ss31 could do for it?

Based on the limited information I've come across regarding SS31 (it's a quick read, not much out there ), the potential benefits include:

• enhancing how the respiratory chain links with ATP synthesis (ATP then fuels various reactions);
  
• lowering electron leakage and oxidative stress (which is why we use antioxidants);
  
• maintaining the structural integrity of mitochondrial cristae (these folds increase what can be “stored” within the mitochondrion, resulting in more energy-producing chains).

That said, when mitochondria are already working well, the improvements seen are less pronounced. From my own observations, it doesn't eliminate fatigue the way MOTS-c or 5AMQ do; it's not a stimulant for energy, just a slight enhancement in ventilation and a minor reduction in heart rate while exercising.

I believe it becomes worthwhile at a certain age, and even more so after shedding some pounds.

I began with a 10 mg kit; it's reasonably priced, and it let me evaluate its effects. I recently moved up to a 50 mg kit, which ought to last just over three months. My upcoming blood test will show whether oxidative stress has decreased, given all the injections I'm taking.

It's great to hear you've already achieved considerable progress.

So, based on what you're saying, the bigger factor in the damage is the age-related loss of repair capacity, rather than the abuse I brought on myself.

With age, our cells find it harder to keep mitochondria going and fix them. This decline tied to aging mainly comes from mutations that build up in mitochondrial DNA, reduced mitophagy (cell recycling), and lower levels of key membrane lipids such as phosphatidylcholine — which leaves us with less energy and more stress inside cells. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

 

[eidos]

Skidude said:

eidos said:

Skidude said:

eidos said:

@Skidude

There is some unfortunate information I need to share: the mitochondria you had back in the '80s no longer exist.

Because they multiply through division, a handful of remnants could theoretically remain, though I'm skeptical — fresh membranes would have replaced them.

To determine whether any researcher has looked into this, I would need to search through scientific papers. The sources you cited cover only the short-term effects; they say nothing about whether recuperation can occur following prolonged cessation.

Back in January 2023, biologists marked an achievement: half of a cell's contents are now understood. Plenty of discoveries remain ahead.

Should alcohol consumption have caused a beer belly or liver damage, addressing it is essential. Begin with antioxidants (all of them are beneficial; the article is around here somewhere...) and above all NAC. On days involving 2 glasses of wine, or when I use acetaminophen/paracetamol, I take roughly 2 g by mouth.

The beer belly has largely disappeared, and taking NAC plus TMG every day also handled the Glutathione detox.

What really interests me is partying—not only alcohol—in terms of damage rather than aging. This isn't just about me, since my partying years are mostly behind me, but as a broad principle for mitochondrial repair benefits.

Fortunately the liver is in great shape, surprisingly so, and the bloodwork looks great too.

What do you think about mito damage that's self inflicted, and what ss31 could do for it?

Based on the limited information I've come across regarding SS31 (it's a quick read, not much out there ), the potential benefits include:

• enhancing how the respiratory chain links with ATP synthesis (ATP then fuels various reactions);
  
• lowering electron leakage and oxidative stress (which is why we use antioxidants);
  
• maintaining the structural integrity of mitochondrial cristae (these folds increase what can be “stored” within the mitochondrion, resulting in more energy-producing chains).

That said, when mitochondria are already working well, the improvements seen are less pronounced. From my own observations, it doesn't eliminate fatigue the way MOTS-c or 5AMQ do; it's not a stimulant for energy, just a slight enhancement in ventilation and a minor reduction in heart rate while exercising.

I believe it becomes worthwhile at a certain age, and even more so after shedding some pounds.

I began with a 10 mg kit; it's reasonably priced, and it let me evaluate its effects. I recently moved up to a 50 mg kit, which ought to last just over three months. My upcoming blood test will show whether oxidative stress has decreased, given all the injections I'm taking.

It's great to hear you've already achieved considerable progress.

So, based on what you're saying, the bigger factor in the damage is the age-related loss of repair capacity, rather than the abuse I brought on myself.

With age, our cells find it harder to keep mitochondria going and fix them. This decline tied to aging mainly comes from mutations that build up in mitochondrial DNA, reduced mitophagy (cell recycling), and lower levels of key membrane lipids such as phosphatidylcholine — which leaves us with less energy and more stress inside cells. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

It seems you've looked into this far deeper than I have.

Once I came across the idea that it might be able to undo damage brought on by metabolic syndrome, I figured it was worth testing out.

I've previously experimented with a fair number of approaches aimed at lowering oxidative stress, and none of them produced meaningful results.

Up to this point, diabetes treatment has relied on plenty of inhibitors; zeroing in on mitochondria is a much newer direction.

Waiting around for definitive proof isn't something I have the patience for. Besides, it's a drug that gets given to infants