BPC/TB vs KLOW

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AlanFord

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Two problems have been lingering for me for a long time, and I'm weighing which peptide route to take first. The left elbow has had tendinitis for roughly 10 years, with intensity that comes and goes, and the right rotator cuff acts up every few months. Both clearly worsen when I increase the weight in my lifting program, particularly during phases that focus on the heavy compound movements. I'm 48 and have been training for 30 years, so technique and similar factors aren't the problem.

Physio has been extensive so far, including the standard mix of manipulation, dry needling, ultrasound and current. It provides some relief, yet after a couple of weeks of building back up I end up exactly where I began.

So the choice is BPC-157 + TB-500 on their own, or KLOW? My leaning is toward the simpler pair first, since if something helps I'll know which one did it. KLOW is only slightly more expensive, though, and the prospect of spending 8 weeks on the wrong option (or merely a less "optimal" one) and then having to restart doesn't appeal to me. For tendon inflammation specifically, is there any reason to include GHK-Cu and KPV, as opposed to skin or gut, which is where most of what I've read points?

Last thing: for those who have used both, did you see any difference between them for comparable issues in particular? Hearing "It did nothing for me" is valuable too, FWIW.
 
Your reasoning makes sense. KLOW is simply BPC-157 plus TB-500 with GHK-Cu and KPV thrown in, and the tendon issue really depends on the first two — though even those are largely animal data at this point. GHK-Cu has evidence mainly around skin and wound healing, while KPV is mostly gut and general inflammation, so for a troublesome elbow and rotator cuff they're more optional than essential. Going with the simpler pair first also gives you a clear answer if it works, and you can add the extras down the line if progress stalls.
 
For several reasons, I have a consistent preference for single compounds rather than blends — among them, being able to dose every compound precisely and being able to get purity results (since Jano does not report the purity of individual components in a blend).

If all of these compounds are new to you, my suggestion is to begin with just one and use it alone for a week or two. After that, you can either add the second one or run it by itself. It bothers me when people go directly into a blend or a large stack before testing each component on its own. Knowing which compound is responsible for which effects, good or bad, would be valuable.

Buying kits of the individual components instead of blends also leaves you far more flexibility down the road. I have gone through all of them, both separately and in various combinations. These days I mostly run GHK-Cu and GHK-basic continuously, and with each fresh recon I rotate in either BPC, TB4, or KPV.
 
Dos-Dox said:

For several reasons, I have a consistent preference for single compounds rather than blends — among them, being able to dose every compound precisely and being able to get purity results (since Jano does not report the purity of individual components in a blend).

If all of these compounds are new to you, my suggestion is to begin with just one and use it alone for a week or two. After that, you can either add the second one or run it by itself. It bothers me when people go directly into a blend or a large stack before testing each component on its own. Knowing which compound is responsible for which effects, good or bad, would be valuable.

Buying kits of the individual components instead of blends also leaves you far more flexibility down the road. I have gone through all of them, both separately and in various combinations. These days I mostly run GHK-Cu and GHK-basic continuously, and with each fresh recon I rotate in either BPC, TB4, or KPV.
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That's an angle I hadn't thought about — I've only ever come across the two discussed together, and I took it for granted that they work in synergy and that combining them delivers more than each would alone.

Say I went that route: which one would you have me begin with?
 
If you're going with a 1:1 blend, it's worth picking up an extra single BPC as well, since that one can be dosed twice a day.
 
For my protocol, I took 500mcg BPC157 together with 500mcg TB4/TB500 once daily, then added another 500mcg of BCP157 at the opposite end of the day.
 
For me personally, I use GHK at night, and in the morning I take deadpool TB, KPV and BCP together in 1 shot. That seems to work better for me than doing one big shot where over 50% is just GHK.
 
When I hurt my shoulder, I began with the individual peptides. After that, I switched to KLOW for daily maintenance. Since then I've picked up an elbow injury, so at night I simply pin the additional BPC-157 and TB-500 to raise it to the injury dose.
 
smartymarti said:

For me personally, I use GHK at night, and in the morning I take deadpool TB, KPV and BCP together in 1 shot. That seems to work better for me than doing one big shot where over 50% is just GHK.
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What kind of results did you see with the shoulder injury? At what dosages were you running them, and how long did it take before you noticed anything?

I’m strongly leaning toward beginning with BPC/TB and then tweaking from there.
 
AlanFord said:


I have two issues I have been dealing with for a while, and I am trying to decide where to start with peptides. Left elbow tendinitis that has been persistent for about 10 years, varying in intensity, and a right rotator cuff that flares up every few months. Both get noticeably worse when I push my lifting program in terms of weight, especially when emphasizing the heavy compounds. I am 48 and have been lifting for 30 years, so form etc. are not the issue.

So far I have done a lot of physio, with the usual combo of manipulation, dry needling, ultrasound and current. That takes the edge off, but within a couple of weeks of ramping back up, I am right back where I started.

The question is BPC-157 + TB-500 alone, or KLOW? My instinct is to start with the simpler two so that if something works I know what did it. KLOW costs only a bit more though, and I do not love the idea of running 8 weeks on the wrong (or even just not "optimal") thing and having to start over. Is there a point to the GHK-Cu and KPV specifically for a tendon inflammation, as opposed to skin or gut (which most of the reading I did points to)?

Finally, for anyone who has run both, did you notice a difference between them for similar issues specifically? “It did nothing for me” is useful to hear too, FWIW.

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I'm certain a lot of us have faced the same kind of chronic problems. Long-term tendinopathy is deeply frustrating, and in my view many people quit physical therapy prematurely or their therapist lacks solid training in tendon rehab. On top of that, it's hard to pause training or step away from a sport you love, even briefly. Sadly, connective tissue doesn't repair the way muscle does.

If you haven't done so yet, please look into Dr Keith Baar and his protocol. You might also consider switching your lifting routine to slow negatives or isometrics, at minimum for the movements that irritate your shoulder and elbow.

For my long-standing tendon problems, BPC-157 made no difference whatsoever, even at 0.5g 2x per day. I never used TB-4 by itself, but Klow did appear to lessen my shoulder pain during weight lifting. It may simply be KPV's anti-inflammatory action.

I hope you get some relief. And perhaps don't simply push through the pain. A complete rupture is a Lot worse than persistent tendinitis.
 
AlanFord said:


Left elbow tendinitis

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For elbow rehab, here's what I consistently suggest. Elbow tendinitis has been a recurring battle for me over 20 years as a rock climber. The only method I've come across that gets it back under control is the Flex Bar along with the associated exercises. I also make a point of sleeping on my back, since that keeps circulation flowing to my arms and supports healing in my connective tissue.

Flex Bar

Tyler Twist for Tennis Elbow

Reverse Tyler Twist for Golfer's Elbow
 
AlanFord said:


and I do not love the idea of running 8 weeks on the wrong (or even just not "optimal") thing and having to start over.

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Rather than treating BPC+TB500 and KLOW as two separate things, think of it this way: one is a glass of water, the other is that same glass of water with drink powder stirred in. Either way, if water is your main goal, you're still drinking water...

And if KLOW turns out not to suit you, there's no need to 'start over' with just BPC+TB500...
 
I used KLOW for more than 8 weeks.

Ghk-cu at 2.5mg, and 500mcg for the other 3.

For me it didn't appear to help much with lowering knee discomfort or a nagging upper back/upper trap problem I've been trying to relieve. I assume that because of my age and health, many of the protocols I come across online just don't work for me. For my needs, they're either too low or too high.

To boost the KLOW ratio, I've ordered BPC & TB500.

Since there's no human clinical trial for compounding protocols, don't be so set on any single protocol. Experiment responsibly and find out what works for you.
 
I mixed TB, BPC and KPV together in a single Deadpool injection and the results have been great. My rotator cuff has been acting up, and roughly 2-3 weeks in I was basically back to normal. I take 1mg each morning.
 
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