Running mots and ss31 together?

[Socram1578]

Current stack of Reta, tb, bpc, cjc/ipa, and mots. Been running 1.5mg of mots before workouts m-f for a month but thinking I might need to do a couple months of ss31 for mitochondrial repair. Wondering if I can still continue running the mots while doing the ss31 protocol or would it be just a waste.

 

[Shittersfull]

I run motsc nad+ and ss31 all together. I'm not convinced the ss31 does anything for me. Ss31 fasted before bed. Motsc Nad fasted in the morning before a fasted workout. I get great workouts.

 

[eidos]

No problemo.

If you're under 50 or don't have a metabolic disease, 2S31 won't do much for you.

 

[Socram1578]

eidos said:


No problemo.

If you're under 50 or don't have a metabolic disease, 2S31 won't do much for you.

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I’m 48 I’m reasonably healthy other than overweight but dropping. I don’t feel lack of energy. Maybe just need to tritrate my mots a bit. What’s your mots dosing look like?

 

[kenadams]

I have found that fasting (more than 48 hours), HIIT, and Carnivore Diet as the best ways to fix my mitochondria.

I am about to try SS 31 and Mots C to see if I feel a difference.

When I went past the 48 hour mark on my fast, I had a ton of energy. Literally did 2 workouts and could have done more.

When I finish my hit training I feel amazing.

Also.... Niacin (flushing kind), Acetyl l Carnitine, and Creatine have also helped

 

[Builderman]

I have a kit of mots-c on the way right now. I’m currently not planning on running any ss-31 before or during my cycle of mots. Curious on how we could test the necessity of this?

I understand the reasoning behind running the ss-31 but are there currently blood tests that will show mitochondrial health - and if so, what is that benchmark number that indicates repair is needed?

 

[eidos]

Socram1578 said:


I’m 48 I’m reasonably healthy other than overweight but dropping. I don’t feel lack of energy. Maybe just need to tritrate my mots a bit. What’s your mots dosing look like?

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Being overweight can damage mitochondria, especially when it causes lipid imbalances (TAG, cholesterol, etc.). So it's worth a try.

I started another cycle of MOTS-c last week, beginning at 2.5 mg, and as of yesterday I’ve gone back up to 5 mg. I’ve been cautious because I ended the previous cycle with a large, very painful lump. I switched to 0.9% NaCl, and the reactions at the injection site have disappeared.

I’m on 5 mg of 2S31. The same for NaCl, since the vials only last a few days. I take 2-3 day breaks, more out of laziness about getting all the equipment out to reconstitute the solution than for any scientific basis.

 

[Socram1578]

eidos said:


Being overweight can damage mitochondria, especially when it causes lipid imbalances (TAG, cholesterol, etc.). So it's worth a try.

I started another cycle of MOTS-c last week, beginning at 2.5 mg, and as of yesterday I’ve gone back up to 5 mg. I’ve been cautious because I ended the previous cycle with a large, very painful lump. I switched to 0.9% NaCl, and the reactions at the injection site have disappeared.

I’m on 5 mg of 2S31. The same for NaCl, since the vials only last a few days. I take 2-3 day breaks, more out of laziness about getting all the equipment out to reconstitute the solution than for any scientific basis.

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So you’re dosing 5mg daily on the mots and the ss31?

 

[boomstar]

Tried 5mg of mots, didnt feel anything so decided I would do a SS31 cycle

Did 5mg daily of SS31 for 20 days, didn't really feel any different

This week now will try the mots and see if its any different

 

[eidos]

Socram1578 said:


So you’re dosing 5mg daily on the mots and the ss31?

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Yes, that's right. I tried 10 mg, but it doesn't really make a difference: 5 mg is enough to relieve the fatigue caused by diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

I also take 5 mg of 5AMQ a day. I'm trying not to get addicted because it works so well for me.

 

[Socram1578]

boomstar said:


Tried 5mg of mots, didnt feel anything so decided I would do a SS31 cycle

Did 5mg daily of SS31 for 20 days, didn't really feel any different

This week now will try the mots and see if its any different

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Exactly what I’m planning on doing. Reach back out with results if any

 

[Socram1578]

eidos said:


Yes, that's right. I tried 10 mg, but it doesn't really make a difference: 5 mg is enough to relieve the fatigue caused by diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

I also take 5 mg of 5AMQ a day. I'm trying not to get addicted because it works so well for me.

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Really considering upping my mots to 3 or 4 see if it makes a difference before deciding to run the ss31, although I suppose running the ss31 wouldn’t hurt. What do you think about running them side by side?

 

[eidos]

Socram1578 said:


What do you think about running them side by side?

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I started with two weeks of 2S31, then added MOTS-c.

I did another three weeks of 2S31 on its own last month and began to notice effects on my breathing and a drop of about 10 beats per minute in my heart rate during sustained aerobic exercise.

Right now, I'm actually doing both at the same time.

There isn't really any established direct synergy between the two. Even though a mitochondrion is small on our scale, it's large on the molecular scale, and they don't act on the same things.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:


I started with two weeks of 2S31, then added MOTS-c.

I did another three weeks of 2S31 on its own last month and began to notice effects on my breathing and a drop of about 10 beats per minute in my heart rate during sustained aerobic exercise.

Right now, I'm actually doing both at the same time.

There isn't really any established direct synergy between the two. Even though a mitochondrion is small on our scale, it's large on the molecular scale, and they don't act on the same things.

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I have done this cycle 2x, tough to know if I needed it, but felt like I likely did based on age and history.

I partied like it was the 80s.. it was.. 90s too...

that and being and old, I figured I fit the criteria.

What are your thought on the partying?

Do you think ss31 helps this or it is a real issue?

This is what google had to say:

Yes, drinking and partying can cause long-term damage to your mitochondria. Alcohol metabolism produces highly toxic byproducts like acetaldehyde, while the stress of late nights and substance use spikes reactive oxygen species. This leads to chronic oxidative stress, mitochondrial DNA damage, and disrupted cellular energy production. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

 

[miameow]

Socram1578 said:


Current stack of Reta, tb, bpc, cjc/ipa, and mots. Been running 1.5mg of mots before workouts m-f for a month but thinking I might need to do a couple months of ss31 for mitochondrial repair. Wondering if I can still continue running the mots while doing the ss31 protocol or would it be just a waste.

Click to expand...

It wouldn’t be a waste, but personally I wouldn’t run them together for at least the first few weeks. I’d start with SS-31 alone so you can tell whether it’s actually doing anything. Once you’re pinning both, it becomes much harder to know which one is responsible.

I went through a cycle of SS-31 before introducing MOTS-c. I’m currently running MOTS-c alone, so I now know what each feels like separately as well as together, which has been useful for my research.

 

[eidos]

@Skidude

I have some sad news for you: your mitochondria from the '80s are already dead.

Since they reproduce by division, there might still be a few traces left, but I doubt it: new membranes have been produced.

I'd have to dig through scientific articles to find out if anyone has researched this. Your bibliography only lists the immediate effects, but not whether recovery is possible after long-term withdrawal.

In January 2023, biologists celebrated reaching a milestone: we now have knowledge of half of what is inside a cell. There's still room for more discoveries.

If drinking alcohol has given you a beer belly or damaged your liver, you should definitely do something about it. Starting with antioxidants (they're all good; I have the article somewhere...) and especially NAC. I take about 2 g (orally) on days when I've had two glasses of wine, or when I take acetaminophen/paracetamol.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:


@Skidude

I have some sad news for you: your mitochondria from the '80s are already dead.

Since they reproduce by division, there might still be a few traces left, but I doubt it: new membranes have been produced.

I'd have to dig through scientific articles to find out if anyone has researched this. Your bibliography only lists the immediate effects, but not whether recovery is possible after long-term withdrawal.

In January 2023, biologists celebrated reaching a milestone: we now have knowledge of half of what is inside a cell. There's still room for more discoveries.

If drinking alcohol has given you a beer belly or damaged your liver, you should definitely do something about it. Starting with antioxidants (they're all good; I have the article somewhere...) and especially NAC. I take about 2 g (orally) on days when I've had two glasses of wine, or when I take acetaminophen/paracetamol.

Click to expand...

Most of the beer belly is gone, and slamming NAC and TMG daily also did the Glutathione detox.

I am really curious about the partying, not just alcohol, as it relates to damage as opposed to age. Not just for myself, most of my party days are long gone, but as a general rule for mitochondrial repair benefit.

Good news is liver is great, AMAZINGLY, and bloodwork seems great as well.

Your thoughts on self inflicted mito damage and the benefits of ss31?

 

[eidos]

Skidude said:


Most of the beer belly is gone, and slamming NAC and TMG daily also did the Glutathione detox.

I am really curious about the partying, not just alcohol, as it relates to damage as opposed to age. Not just for myself, most of my party days are long gone, but as a general rule for mitochondrial repair benefit.

Good news is liver is great, AMAZINGLY, and bloodwork seems great as well.

Your thoughts on self inflicted mito damage and the benefits of ss31?

Click to expand...

From what I've read about SS31 (there isn't much, quick read ), it may help to:

• improve the coupling between the respiratory chain and ATP synthesis (which is then used to provide energy for various reactions);
  
• reduce electron leakage and oxidative stress (the reason we take antioxidants);
  
• preserve the structural integrity of mitochondrial cristae (these folds allow more to be “stored” inside the mitochondrion, meaning more energy-producing chains).

However, in mitochondria that are already functioning properly, the observed benefits are less noticeable. From what I've observed, it doesn't remove fatigue like MOTS-c or 5AMQ; and it's not an energy booster, just a little better ventilation and a slight drop in heart rate during exercise.

I think it's worth it once we reach a certain age, and even better once we've lost some weight.

I started with a 10 mg kit; it’s not overly expensive, and it allowed me to see how it worked. I recently switched to a 50 mg kit, which should last a little over three months. I’ll see in my next blood test if my oxidative stress has gone down, with all the injections I’m getting.

I'm glad to read that you've already made significant progress.

 

[Skidude]

eidos said:


From what I've read about SS31 (there isn't much, quick read ), it may help to:

• improve the coupling between the respiratory chain and ATP synthesis (which is then used to provide energy for various reactions);
  
• reduce electron leakage and oxidative stress (the reason we take antioxidants);
  
• preserve the structural integrity of mitochondrial cristae (these folds allow more to be “stored” inside the mitochondrion, meaning more energy-producing chains).

However, in mitochondria that are already functioning properly, the observed benefits are less noticeable. From what I've observed, it doesn't remove fatigue like MOTS-c or 5AMQ; and it's not an energy booster, just a little better ventilation and a slight drop in heart rate during exercise.

I think it's worth it once we reach a certain age, and even better once we've lost some weight.

I started with a 10 mg kit; it’s not overly expensive, and it allowed me to see how it worked. I recently switched to a 50 mg kit, which should last a little over three months. I’ll see in my next blood test if my oxidative stress has gone down, with all the injections I’m getting.

I'm glad to read that you've already made significant progress.

Click to expand...

So if I am understanding you, it is the age related inability to repair that greater impacts the damage, not necessarily my self inflicted abuse.

As we age, our cells naturally struggle to maintain and repair mitochondria. This age-related decline is primarily driven by accumulated mutations in mitochondrial DNA, decreased cell recycling (mitophagy), and drops in vital membrane lipids like phosphatidylcholine, resulting in less energy and more cellular stress. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

 

[eidos]

Skidude said:


So if I am understanding you, it is the age related inability to repair that greater impacts the damage, not necessarily my self inflicted abuse.

As we age, our cells naturally struggle to maintain and repair mitochondria. This age-related decline is primarily driven by accumulated mutations in mitochondrial DNA, decreased cell recycling (mitophagy), and drops in vital membrane lipids like phosphatidylcholine, resulting in less energy and more cellular stress. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Click to expand...

You've been digging into this more than I have.

When I read that there was a possibility it could repair the damage caused by metabolic syndrome, I decided to give it a try.

I’ve already tried quite a few things to reduce oxidative stress, without any significant results.

Until now, we’ve had many inhibitors to treat diabetes; focusing on mitochondria is a very recent shift in approach.

I’m not patient enough to wait for confirmation. After all, it’s a medication given to babies